Table of Contents for this issue:
Acrobat for Sys 6.0.8
cx/Mobius accelerators?
Specs on Discontinued Macs
Re: Netscape and Mac Plus
Re: MSIE- Don't inhale
Netscape on Classic II
Re: Upgrade?
Re: 32-Bit Clean...etc.
Can't Throw Out the Trach
DayStarred Mac II, 8MB?
Re: Upgrade?
Re: IIvx - ????????
Re: IIvx - ????????
Re: Source of cheap 030 accelerator for LCII
Re:32-Bit Clean...etc.
Old system software
APDA?

Classic-Mac Owners,
I've been looking for a version of Adobe's Acrobat Reader that will run on a Classic Mac under System 6.0.8. Version 2.0 and above require system 7. Any help appreciated.

Thanks

--Paul

To: Hitz, classic-post@hitznet.com I know there are plenty of accelerators available for the venerable IIci, but is there anything out there to speed up a IIcx, short of a motherboard upgrade?

Also, can anyone recommend a source for Mobius SE accelerator/monitor repairs?

Thanks,

Mark Crummett

Forwarded message:

1. How many NuBus slots does IIvx have?
2. How much memory (RAM & VRAM) does the model normally ship...

All owners of "venerable" Macintoshes should have the following page bookmarked:

http://product.info.apple.com/productinfo/datasheets/dtindex.html

The link "Archive of Discontinued Desktop Computers" at the bottom points to detailed data sheets for every one of these old darlings, and has all this sort of information for your inspection.

No. No. No! Netscape requires Color QuickDraw! Even if you have an SE with one of those 68020 or 68030 acellerator cards, you won't be able to run Netscape.

It isn't the processor that is required, it is the ROMed software. You just typically find Color Quickdraw with a 68020 or better processor. Apple never released Color QuickDraw for 68000-based Macs.

I'm not sure this is entirely correct. A few years ago my first mac was a IIsi (I later upgraded to a used SE/30) and I distinctly remember a Color QuickDraw extension with a prism icon finding itself installed on my machine at some point. This was right around when System 7 first shipped. It came from Apple but may have shipped with a version of Photoshop or some other application. If you can find this extension somewhere it may allow Netscape to run on a 68020 or 68030 accelerated mac, or a classic.

What a fantastic list.

Just in case you were wondering, despite what the documentation says, MS Internet Explorer 3 does run on an LC (docs say requires '030). This is good news since my LC has only 6MB; forget Netscape 3!

Netscape Navigator 3 (current version downloaded 2 days ago) runs acceptably on my 6Mb Color Classic (System 7.5.5) with VM enabled. I anticipate it will run even more acceptably when I get my 33MHz 68030 accelerator. So why run anything less than the best? And why support the hegemony? A copy of MSIE installed is a Willydream come true.

It might run acceptably on a Color Classic, but an LC can't use virtual memory. So the phrase `with VM enabled' isn't much help to me. So before flaming me for "supporting the hegemony", take a look at Netscape's use of memory. On a Quadra 605 I have access to at uni, it's using up about 6.5 MB even before I've visited any sites (even with no plugins).

Pete.

Random notes on Netscape and Classic II's (I'm answering several people's questions here)

1. The Classic II is a 68030.
2. Netscape (2.01) runs, albeit slowly, on it. Pictures do look crappy, though.
3. Anyone knowledgable about analog board fixes? I need a new one in mine but I gotta wait unitl I get my PowerCenter 132 paid off...

You have been warned.

I'm running an accellerated (25%) LCII with 8 native megs of ram with Ram Doubler 1.0, a quality 28.8 modem, two external HDs with about 500 mgs, and an Image Writer II. [my pages cost less than a penny, including ribbon, vs. the 4 or 5 cents with the newer printers]

My system is 7.1. I use the rig mostly with MS Word 5.1, Netscape 2.0, and Eudora for eMail.

I contend that...given the limitations of standard telephone connection...this creaky setup lets me cook on the web almost as fast as the newer rigs that cost about tenfold more.

Snip If I am not living in a fool's paradise, it would seem that people who are holding off getting into the game because of the cost are missing the boat if they don't consider an inexpensive classic for the core of their system.

Is there something I'm missing here?

I agree with much of what you've posted here. I travel quite a bit. Although I rely mostly on my PB520c, when at home I prefer to use my desktop machines. I have Macs in my NJ (an LCII with a 50 MHz Thunder accellerator loaded to the max with 26 megs of RAM) and a IIci and a 040 Mac in Dallas. Most of the real work I do is writing one document or another. How much speed do you really need? As far as "net surfin goes, I too find the LCII more than suitable for hiting link after link, especially running 7.5.5 with Open Transport 1.1.1.

However, having said that, by the time a new Mac purchaser found an older 030 LCII box, monitor, accellerator (w/4 RAM slots, 4 30 Pin SIMMS @ $30 each) he or she would be in to the tune of $700 to $900 without the $120 for the extra 16 megs of RAM, or a 28.8 modem. For just $1400 you can get a new PowerPC Performa 16 RAM 1 Gig HD, with a 14 inch monitor, AND a 28.8 Fax/Data modem!

Now just might be the right time to plunge right in and indulge the need for speed. Of course, if someone gives you an awesome deal on an 030 Mac, by all means take it. These Macs are still Great!

Joe Benevides

Subject: Re:32-Bit Clean...etc.
Hi All- I have a Mac IIfx and have been trying to get 32 Bit addressing to work and have had nothing but problems. Whenever I boot with 32 Bit addressing enabled (running System 7.5.5 with 8M on board Ram and RamDoubler[both enabled and disabled]) I get some really wacky things happening. My desktop shifts to the left and downward (i.e. Happy Mac is in the lower left hand corner of the screen) and I lose about 2" of the right hand side of my screen (it is blank) & my mouse freezes, the keyboard works normally, but I am really limited in what I can do in this situation. I have to zap the PRAM in order to get the system to operate normally (albeit back in 24 bit mode:((. I spent about 2 hours on the phone with Apple last week and they were no help at all...Does anyone have any suggestions, I would really appreciate some help, I need the extra RAM that would become available with RamDoubler with 32 bit addressing enabled, as it is I can only get 13M of RAM (in 24 bit mode) and I really need the 16M I would get with 32 bit addressing. I would appreciate any help at all, I have tried trashing my finder, general controls and desktop prefs and this has not helped me at all. HELP!

The IIFX is a 68020 processor and RAM Doubler wont run on anything less than 68030. If you want more ram you'll have to pull some of the 1MB SIMM and replace with 4MB.

Andy, last I checked, the IIFX used a 40 MHz 68030. And it can accomodate up to 128 megs of 80 ns DRAM (64 pin). Operating difficulty may have more to do with some of the unique hardware used by Apple in this bit of a technological orphan. But, boy it was "wicked fast" in its day back in the spring of 1990!

With the price of RAM at an unbelievably low price, I suggest you get a bunch of the real thing. I also suggest a clean install of your system software. Try trashing you finder preference file as well. Good luck.

Joe Benevides

I've got an LCII running 7.5.1; I have 3 items that I was able to drag to the trash but can't empty because the items are "in use."

I've tried "option-emptying" and I've rebooted with the original systems disk but no change. When I use the Finder to find the originals, the originals "can't be found" or my internal or external drives.

How did this happen? Does anyone know how to get rid of this garbage?

Thanks,

E Riedl

I have a Mac II w/o the FDHD ROM upgrade. It's running a DayStar 40-MHz '030 Universal Powercache. I've tried putting 4 MB SIMM's into bank B and I get the Chimes of Death on startup.

The '030 on the DayStar board has built-in PMMU, right? This *should* work, shouldn't it? (Yes, I've got Mode32 installed but that shouldn't be a factor for startup since the Chimes of Death sound before the HD is ever accessed.) Yes, the SIMM's are (according to the vendor) the PAL SIMM's required for a Mac II. Yet it doesn't work. Howcum? TIA.

--

Marconi

I'm running an accellerated (25%) LCII with 8 native megs of ram with Ram Doubler 1.0, a quality 28.8 modem, two external HDs with about 500 mgs, and an Image Writer II. [my pages cost less than a penny, including ribbon, vs. the 4 or 5 cents with the newer printers]

My system is 7.1. I use the rig mostly with MS Word 5.1, Netscape 2.0, and Eudora for eMail.

I contend that...given the limitations of standard telephone connection...this creaky setup lets me cook on the web almost as fast as the newer rigs that cost about tenfold more.

Dick,

Amen, brother!

With Performa 550's going for $500-$600, SE-30's for under $300, etc., etc., it's a tragedy that _everyone_ isn't computer literate and connected.

If only everyone had a rudimentary knowledge of Clarisworks 1.0, which will run in less than 600K of RAM, as I recall, we could call ourselves an educated nation.

Unfortunately, I think we're entering a new era of greater complexity, which is the factor I think most discourages people from getting their mouse wet, so to speak. Cyberdog? Open Transport? OpenDoc? What are these all about and how do they make Clarisworks any faster?

I have recently upgraded to my first PPC Mac (a Perf 6360, my fourth new Performa since 1990 or so) and pine for the good old days of AOL 2.0.1 and 2400 baud modems and 5MB of RAM, when things were simpler, and the sky was a little more blue... ;-)

(Right now my System Software is occupying over 11 of my available 48 MB of real RAM on my new 6360!)

I'm still hanging on to a Brainstorm accelerated Mac Plus in the hope that I'll find something useful to do with it someday.

Keep the faith, eh?

Gary

BTW, Dick, have you looked into Clarisworks? It would clean up your system substantially if you ditched Word. ;-)

It's my first posting to this list and I'd appreciate some advice from you co-listers right off the bat.

I want to purchase a used IIvx to do digital audio production. So ...

1. How many NuBus slots does IIvx have?

2. How much memory (RAM & VRAM) does the model normally ship (oops! used to be shipped...)with and how much more SIMMS (DIPS? What size?) can it accomodate?

3. "Inside the Apple Macintosh" tells Mac II series has no internal video, that is, when you used to purchase one, you'd have to buy a needs-specific NuBus video board/monitor. Is it true with IIvx as well? The model I'm speaking about comes with a monitor. Does that mean that one NuBus slot is already occupied with a card?

4. What is your opinion about the model in general (I'd love to hear ANY)? I've had Color Classic and I know the new baby should have the same processor (twice clock speed ?), more expansion slots and a co-proc.

Dmitri:

There are a couple pieces of freeware you should collect: the Mac Catalog Database, and GURU. GURU (GUide to Ram Updates) is a stand-alone app from Newer Technology http://www.newertech.com which has a world of information about virtually every Mac model ever built. The Mac Catalog Database is a ZDNet http://www.zdnet.com product, available in both Filemaker Pro format and a runtime version if you don't have Filemaker Pro. It has even more information about every Mac ever built. Here's a quick run down of the IIvx

As you've noted, it's got a 68030 running 32 MHz, with a 68882 math co-processor.

It has 4 MB soldered to the mother board, and 4 30 pin SIMM slots which must all be upgraded simultaneously, allowing for a maximum total of 68 MB of RAM.

Sound output is monaural, and the IIvx performs input/output operations at 16 MHz (perhaps the most serious flaw in this otherwise excellent model).

It's got three NuBus slots and one 32-bit PDS slot. There's 512K of built-in VRAM (two 256K SIMMs) which can be replaced with 512K's for 1MB total. However! The internal video will only drive a 640 x 480 display.

Additional resolutions will need a Nubus video card, of which there are many, including an 8*24GC card which I can be convinced to part with at the right price, which will drive monitors up to 1152 x 870.

My wife has had a IIvx since new and is quite pleased with it. I'd like to upgrade her but she's too comfortable with it.

HTH

Gary

From: Glushenko, Dmitri
I want to purchase a used IIvx to do digital audio production. So ... 1. How many NuBus slots does IIvx have?

Three.

2. How much memory (RAM & VRAM) does the model normally ship (oops! used be shipped...)with and how much more SIMMS (DIPS? What size?) can it accomodate?

From Apple Memory Guide 1.1s, the DRAM configurations are:
Bank A - 4Mb (soldered to motherboard)
Bank B - 4 x 30-pin SIMM sockets (80ns RAM required)
4 x 256K == 5Mb total
4 x 1Mb == 8Mb total
4 x 2Mb == 12Mb total
4 x 4Mb == 20Mb total
4 x 16Mb == 68Mb total

The motherboard has two VRAM sockets. As the video subsystem is 16 bits wide, you need to install either 2 x 256K VRAM SIMMs (total 512K) or 2 x 512K VRAM SIMMs (total 1Mb).

*Note* The IIvx is also upgradable to PowerMac status either by adding a 3rd-party PPC card, or by an official, kosher, Apple-approved motherboard transplant. To find the Apple part number, http://www2.apple.com.au/EGserver/til/til.html and search for "iivx upgrade ppc". Or just ring your local dealer 8-)

3. "Inside the Apple Macintosh" tells Mac II series has no internal video, that is, when you used to purchase one, you'd have to buy a

From the picture of the motherboard I can see in front of me, this model does have onboard video.

4. What is your opinion about the model in general (I'd love to hear I've had Color Classic and I know the new baby should have the same processor (twice clock speed ?), more expansion slots and a co-proc.

Well, some random notes: It's considerably faster than the Color Classic, there are other improvements besides the faster CPU clock. My ex-boss's daughter (smartest person in the family by a long shot) had/has a IIvx on which I used to do some of the advertising copy for the firm. She was running PageMaker I think (hey, I just worked there, I'm a programmer 8-). The IIvx also has a bay for an internal CD-ROM drive, which is handy.

From: Steve Smith
Someone reported getting a second hand 030 accelerator for the LCII (etc) for 64$USD. I am afraid that I couldn't tell who it

It was me! Look down the _bottom_ of my post for my sig. I usually reply to several messages at once, and the list manager condenses it into one section with my sig in there only once. Scroll down and you will see a few lines surrounded by "=3D" signs which give my contact details 8-) I cc:d the classic-macs post to you, also.

I am very interested to know the source of these 2nd hand upgrade cards in the US (I assume that the company will also handle export

Sure they //will// do export orders, because I'm in Australia 8-) The co. is:

AWHEN 801/547-9241 Ogden; 541-4621
PO Box 1134 VISA/MC/AMEX/Diners Club/POs
Layton UT 84041 =C4 We ship all over the world

My contact there is: Nick Gilliland

I don't know what they have in stock, but email or call and ask and he'll be able to tell you. Being secondhand, they may not always have any particular item in stock.

From: Dick
I have an LC550 a year and a half old that almost from the beginning has death chimes on startup--but only about once a month. Not wanting to

This is not a guaranteed diagnosis, but I would suspect a power supply problem. I've had this type of problem on various categories of machines (not Macs, but then I only service my own machines, and I haven't owned too many Macs with problems 8-) A faulty PSU can apply power to the device it's powering before it's fully warmed up, the voltage on one or more rails can still be ramping up and not at its nominal level yet. If the problem ONLY happens on powerup, not on reset, then this is quite a likely explanation.

Someone reported getting a second hand 030 accelerator for the LCII (etc) for 64$USD. I am afraid that I couldn't tell who it was, but this person responded to my earlier post about the 10MB limit on the LCII (thank you, whoever you are) because the name and email address didn't appear in the moderated messages.

I am very interested to know the source of these 2nd hand upgrade cards in the US (I assume that the company will also handle export orders). I have also had an enquiry from another Classic Mac fan who is after the same info. Could the person who mentioned the 64$US accelerator please post the details again?

I had an Applied Engineering TransWarp 40 mhz accelerator in my LCII. I never had any problems with it until I tried running 7.5 on it. After 5 crashes a day, I went back to 7.1 and it was working fine. I have since sold my LCII and AE is now defunct. If you can find one, make sure you get the software for it, otherwise it is useless.

A correction to the post about Mac IIfx. According to the Guru program and a Mac IIfx at work they normally have a 68030 as standard equipment.

I believe, but couldn't verify it, that the only requirement for Ram Doubler is a MMU chip which is standard on all (MAC II) except the earliest ones.

Bob Poland

Johnny(?) was enquiring about where he could get old system software for a 128k Macintosh. I found a place in Logan, Utah called Sun Remarketing http://www.sunrem.com who has all kinds of old system software like that. I just recently bought the system for a 512k Mac, it's system 3.x, and Sun Remarketing charges US$15.00 for it. (They gave it to me for US$5.00 though because I bought a new HD for my IIcx, and a bunch of great Apple shirts). They also have great deals on used/refurbished Mac/Apple // computers, accessories, software, etc.

Kris Lander

Original copies of the mag Develop from APDA had system software on the CD. Issue 7, I think, had disk images of all system software issued up until that time, but only the US versions. Back issues can be purchased from APDA.

Who is APDA? (I assume an apple developers group?) I searched the web and found no references. Could you direct me to where I might order back issues of their CD's?