Table of Contents for this issue:
Subject: Mac II RAM
Re: Web Browser for 4MB b/w Macs?
Re: Classic Mac Posts 11.14.2
Re: cx/Mobius accelerators?
couple questions
SE/30 upgrades
SE to SE/30
Macintosh Plus is Still Cool
OS for LCII
Mac H/W and S/W
Plus and Zips
Sound problems on an LC
Re: Classic Macs Posts 11.15.1
Re: MacPlus OS, Zip Question
Re: Classic Macs Posts 11.15.1
Classic boot from ROM
Case splitters
Re: Classic Macs Posts 11.15.1
Re: Which version of the OS is best?
7-Up
Re: SE/30 and RAM
Toaster Games

I have a Mac II w/o the FDHD ROM upgrade. It's running a DayStar 40-MHz '030 Universal Powercache. I've tried putting 4 MB SIMM's into bank B and I get the Chimes of Death on startup.

Have you got the right 4 MB SIMM's? The Mac II takes a special 4 MB SIMM? Hint they are very expensive.
Note: the Mac IIfx takes a different special SIMM.

Bob Poland

I am currently using MacWeb version 1.1.1E on a MacSE (4mb RAM, 20mb hard drive), and it is a text-only browser. In addition, I use Fetch for FTP, and Pegasus or a demo of Eudora 3.0 for my mail. MacWeb is a little slow, but it works just fine. I received it in the mail from a friend, so I do not know where to get it. If you cannot find it in an archive, email me directly, and I will look it up on the 'Net computers at work. GO MAC!! :-D

Also, what would be the optimum System OS to run with the Mac SE?
Definitely System 7.0 w/7-up or 7.0.1 for the SE. Best balance of System 7 Typically cannot easily install greater than 7.0 w/ 7-up on an SE due to the 800k drive limitation. Does anyone know of 7.0.1 or 7.1 on 800k disks?

Try Byte Computers in Vancouver at (604) 738-2181 and ask for Mickey. They provided me with System 7.1 on 800k disks to install a Radius Rocket SCSI-2 Bosster on a Mac II. (The Rocket will only run on System 7.1), or try your local Macintosh retailer.

I doubt that this will end the confusion, but the ONLY machine that Apple ever made that had a 68020 was the original Mac II. All others had 68000, 68030, 68040 or various PowerPCs.

The original LC also used an 020.

From: Andy Berkvam
2. Can you run the MacPlus from a Zip drive?
Anyone out there actually gotten a Mac Plus and Zip drive to co-exist?

Yep, I've even done it on the 512ke. I don't think Iomega's extension-based driver works, but it will boot from a Zip disk, and it will mount Zip disks using "guest."

I know there are plenty of accelerators available for the venerable IIci, but is there anything out there to speed up a IIcx, short of a motherboard upgrade?

I have a DiiMoCache 50 MHz accelerator in my IIcx that runs like a champ. It's faster than my sister's Centris 650 68040 box.

You can reach them at:

DiiMO Technologies, Inc.
14205 Brunet Road, Ste. 100
Austin, TX 78728

800-50-DiiMO (800-503-4266)
512-218-9400

You have to send in the motherboard to have a socket installed. They do a quick turn-around.

The latest prices I've seen have been around $300.

does anyone know why I might be having trouble installing netscape 3.0 on a MacIIcx? important gearhead info includes: 7.5 with Mode32(7.5) and 16MB RAM. There may be "bigger" problems with the box: it boots up in black-and-white everytime - I can go into monitors and change it back to color - I've covered the basics: zapped PRAM, reseeded the video card in a different slot, reloaded the OS - all to no avail. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help.

John Webster

Christopher Currie wrote

Ok, after reading this list for a few weeks it's clear that if I want more oomph out of my SE/800K, then my best bet is to swap in an SE/30 logic board. But I have a few questions about the process.

1) How can I tell if my memory is fast enough to support an SE/30?
2) Are there any other hardware changes I need to turn my SE into a true SE/30? I know I need SuperDrives, anything else?
3) What system software works best?
I have 4mb RAM but am willing to upgrage if necessary. My choices seem to be between 7.0.x and 7.5.5, since I can't buy anything in between. As an aside, can anyone tell me what an analog board is, and what is does?

1) The SE/30 requires RAM of 120ns or better. The SIMMs in your SE may be as slow as 150ns but it's likely that they are faster. You can usually tell by looking at the coding on individual chips on the SIMM. The one I have in front of me has a "-100" on it indicating 100ns. If you have 150ns (unlikely but possible) you'll have to replace them.

The SE/30 has two banks of 4 slots each. Configurations include: 4 1MB in Bank A with Bank B empty; the same but with either 4 256k SIMMs (for a total of 5MB) or 4 1MB SIMMs in Bank B; additional configurations using larger SIMMS in groups of 4 up to a total of 32MB using 8 4MB SIMMs.

2) The SE/30 upgrade normally includes a new front bezel for the case that says SE/30 and only has one floppy slot instead of the usual 2 on an SE. The SE/30 has the necessary ROM to operate a SuperDrive. All you have to do is plug it in. No other hardware is necessary, it's pretty much a straight board swap.

3) The amount of RAM will really determine the system software you can use. I find that 7.1 with the 3.0 update and a few shareware extensions to be the best combination of size, stability and features.

4) An analog board is the circuit board the sits vertically in the SE and SE/30 case. It supplies the video signal and has the power supply attached to it as well. It is not involved in the upgrade except for the fact that you have to unplug the cables that run off of it from the motherboard. Be very careful to also detach (and then reattach when you are done) the small video board that attaches to the back of the tube. More than one person has succeeded in breaking off the end of the tube by bumping into that little board while trying to get at a floppy drive or unplug a cable. Also, pay special attention to the red wire running from the analog board to a rubber cup on the CRT. If your Mac has been on in the last 24 hours, there is enough current stored in their to cause VERY serious injury. It does dissipate in about 24 hours or you can bleed it off to a ground with resistor.

I did my first SE to SE/30 upgrade in 1990. I believe we paid $800 for the kit which did not include the SuperDrive.

Ok, after reading this list for a few weeks it's clear that if I want more >oomph out of my SE/800K, then my best bet is to swap in an SE/30 logic >board. But I have a few questions about the process.

1) How can I tell if my memory is fast enough to support an SE/30?

It's the same memory. It will work in the SE/30. You probably won't notice much if any performace increase by going to quicker RAM.

2) Are there any other hardware changes I need to turn my SE into a true SE/30? I know I need SuperDrives, anything else?

No. 3) What system software works best? I have 4mb RAM but am willing to upgrage if necessary. My choices seem to be between 7.0.x and 7.5.5, since I can't buy anything in between.

You can get other systems, check the Sun Remarketing Group. I run 7.1 enhanced on my 2 SE/30's, and I think for what I do, that's the best.

As an aside, can anyone tell me what an analog board is, and what is does? I've seen them advertised on web pages as being the same for SE's and SE/30's so I wanted to make sure.

They are the same board, but the SE/30's analog Board went through some revisions, so that one from an SE will definitely work, but the newer SE/30 board has a better fan. Check to see if the fan is a radial 'squirrel cage' type, or the more standard flat-type bladed fan. The older ones are the 'squirrel cage' type. The 'Analog Board' is the power supply for the logic board, and the high voltage board that runs the tube. Always be careful when you open your SE, especially if it's been on recently, or if you run it with the case off. There are LEATHAL voltages present even if the machine has been off.

I pulled this off of the MacWay Digest (the Mac Evangelist). It answers several questions that have been posted in recent days.

This follow-up message is from:

(Bill Jagitsch)

I thought you'd like to hear about what I did on an old Mac Plus.

After securing a deal to sell it to my friend for my roomate, I decided to beef it up and give it an overhaul. I downloaded System 7.01 from the Apple website, transfered it to my Zip drive, plugged the Zip into the Plus and installed system 7.01 after reformatting the hard drive.

I then installed MacWeb, a great little web browser that allows surfing on old 8 bit screens sans graphics, Eudora Lite for email and Ircle 2.5 for internet chat. I then plugged in my old Zoom 2400 baud modem that I purchased in 1991 and surfed the web! I got the latest MacWay digest, and told all the Mac users on Ircle that I was on a Plus! They couldn't believe it!

And my friend thought she was going to get a Mac with an old system on it that wasn't net-ready and could only run old software!

I'll give anybody $1000 who can prove a ten year old PC can do all that. (OK, maybe not $1000 but I'll let 'em use my Centris 660 AV for a week or two and try to convert 'em!)

Until I'm saved up for a Power Mac, it looks like I'll have to do w/ my LCII running system 7.1 w/ 8RAM, Ram Doubler, 100 HD.

My question is, I would like to try the CyberFinder bookmark utility, but unfortunately it requires a minimum of System 7.1.1 (Pro), which I'm unable to locate.

I'm not sure if upgrading the slow LCII (16 MHZ) machine to 7.5.5 would badly clog it up. Otherwise, I'd go that route.

Ideas and suggestions will be appreciated.

TIA

Carl Davis

I have some old Classic Mac H/W and S/W for the 128, 512, Plus and SE series that I'd like to post for sale.
I'm sure you would accept that.
Also, some NuBus cards - video ,ethernet, accel.
I also have some systems S/W like ver 3.2 - 4.1 - 4.2 for 512KE
I've seen that this S/W can be bought through Sun.
I could offer it too.

My main question is how would you deal with some application S/W?

I have old versions, some original of MacWrite, MacPaint, MacProject, MacDraw. MacWrite II 1.0v1 - MacProject II v1.0 Plus, some Microsoft - Word 3.0, 3.0.1, 3.0.2, Excel 1.04, PowerPoint 1.0. How would you handle that? I wouldn't charge much, but is there an inherent problem with this- other than selling copies? I realize these are COPIES, but they are also OLD versions.

I'd appreciate a comment before I make a posting.

Classic Macs Answers:

The mailing list is not the forum for listing items for sale. However if you wish to mention what you have, interested parties can contact you for private discussion. I might also suggest visiting The Mac Trading Post(tm), which lists many used Mac hardware items for sale by private parties. You can link to them from the MacDeals Home Page at http://www.hitznet.com/macdeals/

I will let other list subscribers answer the "used software" issues.

Bill Hitz

To whomever was wondering if the Zip Drive will work on a Plus, the answer, at least for me, is yes. It actually seemed like a good match, because of the Plus's slower SCSI port and the Zip's slower access time seemed to match up pretty well. I just did it to transfer some files, so I didn't bother learning to to optimize the interweave ratio to get the maximum throughput for sustained transfers, but it didn't seem slower than the hard drive. Hope this helps.

Greg Koelpien

This is just a cure for intermittant sound problems on the orginal LC...and possibly on later LC models.

When I had an LC the sound used to have a problem of stuttering, and sometimes completely failing and then suddenly coming back intermittantly. It did get rather annoying if you where used anything with plenty of sound such as a game.

The quick fix at the time was to gently tap the casing on the side by the flppy drive and it would return for a while. But to fix it completely just open up the LC and remove the speaker assembly, it sits between the Hard Disk and the Floppy Drive. It just clips out quit easily. On the motherboard is some little connections which tally with some on the speaker assembly. Just take a bit of wire wool and clean them and do the same on the ones on the speaker. To make sure they connect tighter just bend the connectors on the speaker assembly down abit and make sure that when you attach it again to the all the connections touch correctly...and hay presto great sound!

Hope this helps someone.

Allan.

Does anyone know a source for a new screen for a PB170? I was given one in perfect working order except for a cracked screen. And is there any way to bypass the 10Mb RAM restriction on it, other than RamDoubler? I do know of one company which can upgrade the 25MHz clock speed to 33MHz.

Uh, the 170 only carries 8 megs RAM far as I know. If you know of a way to get 10 megs in there, please let me know: it would make a difference. You will sometimes see PB170 screens advertised on the newsgroups, particularly comp.sys.mac.portables and comp.sys.mac.wanted. You might also try Shreve Systems at 1-800-227-3971. They "specialize in parts" as well as used systems, and have been around for many years -- since Apple II days.

Jim Upchurch

You can get 7.01 from the Macuser archives
http://www.zdnet.com/macuser/
Do a search for system 7.01 and you should find it. You may have to do a lot of scrolling. Apple's web site has it as well. It takes approx 1.5 megs on my Plus with no extensions or CP's.

The only problem is that the image files for 7.0.1 are meant for 1.4MB disks, which cannot be read by the Mac Plus. You might be able to install the disk images using ShrinkWrap from one HD to the Plus HD, but I am not sure how well that would work. The latest version of the MacOS that has 800k disk images is 7.0 (check Apple's ftp sites).

Make sure you run System7_Tune-up_1.1.1 after you install either 7.0 or 7.0.1.

Also, either variant of system 7 will not run on a 1 MB RAM Mac Plus. You need to go to at least 2 MB and 4 MB RAM to be comfortable (and even multi-task!). And you will need to run it from a HD as you will not be able to make a system 7 floppy boot disk on an 800k disk (even with ShortFinder). 7.1 took up about 1.2 MB RAM on my 4 MB Plus; that's one reason I went back to 6.0.8 8-). MacOS versions 6.0.3, 6.0.5 and 6.0.8 are available as 800k disk images from Apple's ftp sites. You can run a Mac Plus from a floppy under system 6 (but not much else).

Regards,

Bob Eye

I'm a proud owner of Mac SE/30 with actually 8 meg of RAM (simms of 1 meg. each), and currently running Connectix mode 32 and system 7.1. I usually dont use virtual memory.
If I want to have "physicaly" more RAM, can I use simm with greater capacity (like 4 meg. each) on this mac? In how many slot/bank? What's happen if mode 32 IS NOT activated on startup (because old software incompability with 32 bit adressing...) and I have more than 8 meg of RAM on board?

Oh, yes. The SE/30 has 8 slots if I recall, in two banks of 4 each. Also if I recall, all 4 slots in either bank must contain the same capacity SIMMs. You can install four 4-meg SIMMs in one bank and 4 one-meg SIMMs in the other (total of 20, and I know this will work because I ran my SE/30 that way for a long time). And eight 4-meg SIMMs, too, total of 32. I believe you cannot combine different-capacity SIMMs in a single bank, i.e., two fours and two ones in a single bank. And I believe every slot in a bank must have a SIMM in it; i.e., as I recall you cannot install two one-megs in a bank and leave the other two banks empty.

I'm vague on using 2 meg SIMMs in an SE/30, never tried it but I have this vague recollection there is a problem. Maybe not. I never used 2-meg SIMMs anyhow.

If you do not run MODE32, the SE/30 cannot address more than 8 megs. It won't crash, but the extra RAM (extra means >8) will not be usable; the additional megs will show up in About this Macintosh... as useless expansions of the system memory.

A better choice for the SE would be the MicroMac `30 / 33Mhz accelerator with 64K cache.

I know nothing about the MicroMac accelerator board, but we upgraded an SE with an 030 accelerator years ago and it gave great reliable _and compatible_ service for a long time. The same board enabled us to expand RAM to 20 megs and also to run a 2-page display. The setup was from Mobius, it relied on a customized version of Connectix Virtual (which was included), and it eventually turned out to be incompatible with System 7.5. Mobius is out of business but they made great products. I finally donated the setup to a school and they are using it to this day.

According to the specifications of the Macintosh Classic, it is bootable from the ROM. Does anyone out there in Classic-land know the magic key combination to do this?

The often mentioned Case Splitter for Macs is just a modified pair of Welding Clamps from your local hardware store for a couple of dollars.

I used those once.

ONCE........

A case for a Mac Classic was an expensive and hard to come by thing in 1992. A replacement case took several dayts and cost much more than any case splitter at that time.

I'll stick with a $3 splitter that's made for the task.

As Scotty on Star Trek once told his junior members of the engineering team, "Haven't I told ye a million times? Always use the right tool for the right job!"

I don't need another Classic case to break, even if they are cheap today!

Has anyone used an older version of AOL on a 4-meg Plus? I'd think one of the first versions would work on a Plus (abiet slowly).

I used AOL 2.5 and 2.6 on a 4 meg Mac Plus w/ a 14.4 for about two years and still occasionally do, and it works fine. Th e Web Browser, however does not even think about working.

Do you know how much RAM 7.0.1 takes up on the SE?

You could probably get it down to about 985K really bare-bones

Do you know for a fact that 7.0.1 works better on the SE?

Several calls to SOS-APPLE. Also, Macintosh Bible and Macworld Secrets by Pogue & Schorr. Inside the Apple Macintosh by Peter Norton sez it's so, too.

I was also wondering how much RAM System 6.0.8 took up....

We're talking really skinny, here. You can run a 1 MB Plus off of an 800K floppy with MacWrite or MacDraw and still have SuperClock and a few other lean add-ons, maybe even a small version of Talking Moose! Actually 6.0.8 is extremely stable and as long as you don't need 32-bit addreseing and aren't addicted to some of System 7's capabilities, it's a gem of a system. Windoze only wishes it could be so cool as System 6.

Check with TechWorks for best deals on PowerBook RAM.

Most recent copy of MacWeek lists some ridiculous RAM prices from OtherWorldComputing at (800) 275-4576, starting at 1 MB 30 pin 80 NanoSecs for $9.75; 32 Mb 72's are $199! I can recall when these were thousands!

What is 7-up? And where/how does one acquire it?

Officially known as: "System 7 Tune-up v. 1.1.1, this was released with subsequent system software and through MacUser Groups (that's where I picked it up) after the debut of Sys 7 & 7.0.1 until the release of 7.1. There was a bug that could cause file icons to disappear from the desktop (you could locate them with the Find command, but you couldn't see them in the Finder).

There was also a StyleWriter memory fix & speed-up, a PrintMonitor replacement and some tweaks to network software. It's all fixed in 7.1 and later versions of Disk First Aid attempt to repair the Finder bug.

If you cannot locate it elsewhere, I would be happy to copy and send it to you. Just send a SSAE and an 800K disk to me at:

F. Edward Mouton
221 Verot School Road
South Point Apartments #I-397
Lafayette, LA 70508-8240

I'm a proud owner of Mac SE/30 with actually 8 meg of RAM (simms of 1 meg. each), and currently running Connectix mode 32 and system 7.1. I usually dont use virtual memory.
If I want to have "physicaly" more RAM, can I use simm with greater capacity (like 4 meg. each) on this mac? In how many slot/bank? What's happen if mode 32 IS NOT activated on startup (because old software incompability with 32 bit adressing...) and I have more than 8 meg of RAM on board?

According to the Macintosh Hardware FAQ:

=====
Available Physical RAM Minimum Upgrade
CPU Onboard Slots Sizes Configs (MB) Pins Speed in
SE/30 0 8 256K,1M 1,2,4,5,8,16 30 120ns 4
4M,16M 17,20,32,64
65,68,80,128
=====

And according to the "Frequently Asked Questions about Macintosh System Software":

=====
Under system versions earlier than 7.0 or under System 7.x without 32-bit addressing turned on the Mac cannot access more than eight megabytes of real memory. If you have more physical RAM installed, the Mac knows it's present but can't do anything with it. When About this Macintosh (About the Finder in System 6) is selected from the Apple menu, the system reports all the memory it can't use as part of the system memory allocation.
=====

So it looks like if you want more than 8 Mb available in your Mac SE/30, you need a software solution. One is MODE32 by Connectix. You can get it and more info at http://www.connectix.com/connect/more-up.html. Another option is to get another Connectix product (MAXIMA, RAM Doubler, or Virtual 3.0). These will allow limited use of up to 14 Mb using the more compatible 24 bit addressing. More info about this option is availailible at the same URL.

Andy

To: Classic Mac Mailing List 'lo all,

I recently aquired a Mac SE/30. I almost immediately tried to load the most important software for any computer: GAMES! But I had some trouble because so many games require either color or a screen larger than 9" (the "Toaster" screen).

I thought that there might be a page out there listing Mac games that would work on 9" B&W; screens, but I wasn't able to find one. My question is, is anyone else out there interested in this info? If so, I might put a page like this together myself. This brings up the second question. Would people help out by sending me info about games that work on the old 9" screen?

Thanks,

Andy