Table of Contents for this issue:
sys 6.0.8 from ftp2
AOL 3.0 and LC
My Rebuilt SE
Re: SE/30
Color Classic - best upgrade?
Re: Old Mac, newer hard drive
Re: SE/30
SE and Uninsulated HD
Replace battery on LC475/Q605
Re: Classic Macs Digest 11.17
Pushing an SE
RE: Old Mac, newer hard drive
FYI ; source for Mac Web text browser
Suggestion
dead Color Classic
OT 1.1.1
Re: Macs with 68020
AOL breaking ClassicMac emails?
Re: Classic Macs Posts 11.15.2
illustrator 1.1
Thank You All
Re: netscape 3.0 on a MacIIcx
Re: SE/30 and 512k keyboard question
Re: Classic Macs Digest 11.17
Re: Upgrading an LCIII
Re: Netscape on SE
ram prices, power book
Color Classic -guru- advice

I downloaded the disk images for 6.0.8 from apple and when I opened them up, they were just documents that wouldn't open up... not folders or anything.

do I need to use an ftp specific program like fetch to get this... it was pretty slow the first time.

You got the correct thing. You downloaded disk images. They are documents that need a program such as disk-dup to read.

A disk image is an exact copy of a floppy disk sector by sector. Today many programs will not install unless they are installed from the original disk. That way the programs are very hard to pirate. Shrinkwrap, the best peice of disk dup software I've seen yet, is able to bypass this protection by getting an exact copy of the disk.

Timothy K. Scoff

A question for the list. I have a friend with an LC -- the sole purpose of its existence is so that my friend can run America Online. Now, with version 3.0 out for the Macintosh my friend is looking for a way to run the software.

Unfortunately, I think his machine basically is unable to do this. But I thought that I would run this one by the list. He wants to spend little additional money....so....let's see what you can come up with!

AOL 3.0 apparently requires system 7.1 or later, minimum 8 Megs of RAM (16 recommended), 030 processor and ?? (I think that is it....but if anyone knows differently, please tell me.

Thanks!

Greeting old Mac afficianados(sp):

My first computer was an MacSE bought new 10 years ago. It was upgraded to 4MB and a new disk when the 20MB died. The analog board and floppy drive were also replaced in time.

As it was replaced with more powerful machines, it stayed in use in my household as a spare. That was till about two years ago when the screen shrunk and no fiddling could fix it.

A week ago, I saw an SE at a flea market and bought it just for the analog board. (A duel FDHD 1988 model.) I made one machine from the two. Moved the RAM that was not in the original to the FDHD. Moved the HD that was not in the original to the FDHD. Moved the "signature" case back from the original. My old SE works fine now for my 7 year old daughter.

Now the question:
Even though the only part from my original purchase is the back case cover, I still consider it my original machine. Do others of you feel the same about your upgraded machines?

Bruce

PS:
The signature case had the names of the developers embossed in the plastic. With a bracket from APS, an SE can hold 2 floppies and an HD.

I recently got hold of an SE/30, no manuals, no system disks, no peripherals. My wife would like it to be a kitchen Mac, for some sort of...

What is the latest system a SE can use and where do I get it?
Will this guy only accept 800K disks?

If it's an SE/30, then it should should have a 1.44mb capable floppy drive. A regular SE may or may not have the high-density floppy drive, depending on model. It's possible that a previous owner replaced your SE/30's 1.44mb drive with an older 800k-only drive.

SE/30s can use System 7.5.5, but it should have 8mb RAM at least. System 7.0.1 and 7.1 are better for a 4mb system. You can get versions of system software (to 7.0.1 I think) at Apple's ftp site - ftp.apple.com

- Ken Watanabe

Can anyone recommend a good speed-up for my trusty Color Classic (10/360)?

Tim

I have an old Mac Plus that is for my son's use and a newer LC 520 for myself. One day I attached the 50mb hard drive from the Plus to the LC. The problem occurred when I later realized that the Plus would no longer recognize the hard drive. Apparently, in connecting to a newer computer, I destroyed something in the drive and it is not repairable.

I hope you didn't install while anything was "live"! You may have fried some electronics, in which case your best bet might be to find another external case/power supply and transplant the drive (the drive likely is fine; it's the electronics which are toast). Simpler/cheaper: you might want to reinstall whatever disk driver (Apple HD SC Setup, LaCie Silverlining, whatever) you were using on the Plus drive... that might fix it.

I recently got hold of an SE/30, no manuals, no system disks, no peripherals. My wife would like it to be a kitchen Mac, for some sort of cooking database and a PIM or at least a name and address program. I don't think she plans to print anything, but that might be a later option. I don't know anything about this little guy, except that he is quite appealing, as I am a PowerClone person. A couple of questions leap to mind: What is the latest system a SE can use and where do I get it? Will this guy only accept 800K disks?

We need to get some terminology straight here [g]. There were SEs with 30 MB hard drives and SE/30s (which generally came with 40 and 80 MB HDs though many of them have been reshopped with bigger drives by previous owners). There's a world of difference between them. The SE/30 is a pretty capable box: 16 MHz 68030 processor, the ability to handle up to 128 MB of RAM, Color QuickDraw in ROM (so you could connect a color monitor; you couldn't really do that on the SE), and 1.4 MB SuperDrives from the "get-go."

As such, an SE/30 (for that matter, an SE) can handle the latest version of 7.5; the only consideration is the space it takes on the HD and in RAM (you just may need more). It will also handle any program that will run on a 68030 and does not _require_ a color monitor (though you can add one, the price to do so will be pretty high). Mac OS software is now a commercial product; one good source I've found for System 7.5 is Shreve Systems in Louisiana; versions 7.0 and earlier are free and can be found on Apple's ftp sites.

If indeed you have an SE, then you will have no more than 4 MB on board (that's all they can handle) and many have a HD as small as 20 MB. If you don't have 4 MB now, get it. The drive should be easy to upgrade, too, though depending on how you get the cooking software, you may not need to do so (it may come on CD-ROM, in which case your big storage needs go away). The way to tell if an SE has the 1.4 MB drive is to look for the word "SuperDrive" near the floppy drive opening. Otherwise, it's 800 KB. I don't recall off-hand what's required to bump the drive to 1.4 MB beyond swapping out the drive.

Can anybody identify and source cooking or recipe software that the SE will run?

The only two cooking programs I'm aware of are called Mangia! and -- well, I don't remember the name, but it is from Cooking Light magazine.

How about an address book and calendar or a PIM?

There's a bunch of them, especially freeware. My sister has been using Berkeley Systems' Espresso and likes it a lot.

When I tried to put the shareware address book from the PowerClone onto the SE, it offered to re initialize my disk. Was this because it was a 1.4meg floppy?

Maybe. Or there could be a mismatch between drives. See if you can write a low-density floppy on the SE(?) that can be read on the clone. That should isolate the problem.

I just bought a used SE for use as a spare email station, and its internal drive is playing havoc with the display. Apparently it's not well shielded. Anyone know of a material I can wrap around the drive or slip between the drive and display to keep the drive's motor from jiggling the display?

Thanks.

-Kelley-

Greetings!

I got anew battery for my LC475 from Radio Shack, but could not get the black box off of the old battery on the logic board. What is the trick to this?

I, myself, just recently changed the battery on my Quadra 605 (same model as the LC 475). The tabs that hold the cover in place are on the ends, and it -is- very difficult to remove.

i------------------------i
[ /--------------------\ ]
[ | _/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | ]
[-- ( Battery | --] >--- Cover
[ | ~\______________| | ]
i------------------------i
\
Battery case

What you need to do is to use a small flat-head screwdriver, insert it into the side of the tab at the end of the cover, and -carefully- pry it out and up at the same time. When you replace the cover, you'll have to spread the ends out a bit again to get it back into place.

Hope this helps!

-- George
-- Mac RT Help Daemon, Genie Online Services

Subject: Old Mac, newer hard drive
From: Dennis Ducklow
myself. One day I attached the 50mb hard drive from the Plus to the LC. The problem occurred when I later realized that the Plus would no longer recognize the hard drive. Any suggestions?

I presume these machines are running different System versions. When you insert a disk which has an old desktop file on it, MacOS will rebuild and uplevel the desktop file. First, verify that the disk is still intact by connecting it to the LC again. Now try booting the Plus from a startup disk (with the HDD attached) and rebuild the desktop by holding command-option while the system boots.

If this doesn't work, locate your Plus's Disk Tools disk and run HD SC Setup. Have a peek at the partition info. It's just, just possible (though darn unlikely) that the LC's SCSI driver has upleveled the driver on that external disk to a version which won't work on the Plus. It's realllllllly not likely though.

Subject: Dead Color Classic
From: Mark or Leigh DeHart
Help! My Color Classic has gone down, and the repair shop I took it to startup; (2) I added a DayStar Accelerator a couple of years ago (as I

First, remove that accelerator and try without it. It _could_ be the culprit. Also remove any extra RAM or VRAM SIMMs you have on the logic board.

No luck? Try this (don't tell anyone though. Ssssh!): Disconnect all cables. Remove the logic board. Connect the power cable and turn the power switch on. Does the fan start? If so, the analog board is likely OK, certainly it's partially OK, and your problem probably lies on the logic board.

The thing is, if they REALLY replaced both boards, the only major components left in the machine unreplaced are the CRT, drives and loudspeaker, and these will not be the culprits!

It could be the connector array at the end of the tray into which the logic board slides, or the cables which lead up from it, but your repair center should have been capable of locating and diagnosing such a problem, and it will be exceedingly painful for you to get in there and have a poke around.

Subject: SE/30
From: glaston
I recently got hold of an SE/30, no manuals, no system disks, no What is the latest system a SE can use and where do I get it?

ftp.info.euro.apple.com has System 7.0 available for download.

Will this guy only accept 800K disks?

It should have a FDHD (Superdrive) fitted. If it doesn't, you can retrofit one, the SE/30's ROMs support 1.44 drives out of the box.

When I tried to put the shareware address book from the PowerClone onto the SE, it offered to re initialize my disk.

Try cleaning the floppy drive heads. Also ensure 32-bit addressing is off (the SE/30 ROMs are not 32-bit clean), and try booting with no extensions.

Subject: sys 6.0.8 from ftp2.
From: Joseph L. Puente
I downloaded the disk images for 6.0.8 from apple and when I opened them up, they were just documents that wouldn't open up... not folders or

The images on info*.*.apple.com are disk images to use with Disk Copy. The same ftp server will have a Utilities directory containing Disk Copy (current version is 4.2 I think). That will write those images to blank 800K disks so that you can then boot off the first one.

Hello,

I received many e-mail responses about my concern with Netscape on an SE and I thought that it would be best to thank everybody on the list by posting rather than individually, along with share some more stuff. I managed to get Mosaic's browser 1.0.3 to work and it even makes a pretty good effort with the graphics, but is extremely slow of course. The SE isn t so bad under most normal conditions, but when it's on-line it really bogs down. I have tried many things on the SE in the short time I've owned it and am amazed at how not so primitive this classic MAC is. I have another question to ask. The accelerator I want from Sonnet is so posed to go up to 33MHz and allow up to 16 physical megs of ram for the SE. I haven't received it yet because their working on their own version of a Compact Virtual which was discontinued by Connectics. I only want to accelerate it to speed things up when it's on line and some other things. Does anybody have any comments about this product or similar ones?

Thanks again for your help and pleasant complements on my web site.

http://www.alternativeauto.com

Lidio

I have an old Mac Plus that is for my son's use and a newer LC 520 for myself. One day I attached the 50mb hard drive from the Plus to the LC. The problem occurred when I later realized that the Plus would no longer recognize the hard drive. Apparently, in connecting to a newer computer, I destroyed something in the drive and it is not repairable.

Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone else experienced this?

Any suggestions?

I had the same thing happen when two systems with different OS versions Appletalked, and they had different Drivers on them. I don't know which caused it, or if it was both, both running the HD_SC set-up recovered me enough to back up my files, and then I reformatted the drive. now any drive I connect to has the same drivers on them. No problems.

Eric The web wandering wonderer

IIsi W/fpu 17 meg of ram, full page grayscale, 13" 24-bit color, 33.6, 4X, etc

Mac Web is available at:

ftp://sumex-aim.stanford.edu/info-mac/_Internet/_Web/

I am using a Mac Portable (the 32 pound first attempt by Apple) with a 2400 baud modem. I log on remotely to a UNIX system to retreive my Email. As a consequence scrolling through long posts takes a long time. I would greatly appreciate it if Classic Mac posts had a table of contents (a simple list of subject lines would do) at the top of the post so that I can tell if it would be worth my while to scroll through it.

Thanks.

Classic Macs Replies:

This is one of several suggestions we may try to implement in the future. We realize that the Digest is long and that your time is valuable. We are working as fast as possible with our limited time to move the list to Majordomo for better efficiency, and after that we will look at solving some of the other problems with the list.

Thanks to all of you for the many valuable suggestions.

Bill Hitz
Moderator

P.S. - Signatures will be removed for now in the interest of saving space, except where they contribute relevance to the post and its response.

Help! My Color Classic has gone down, and the repair shop I took it to can't figure it out. It is just plain dead - no response to the power-on button on the keyboard (the keyboard works fine elsewhere).

I had the same problem - the fuse had blown. The battery might also be dead (as per your post)

Anyway, good luck!

kevin c.

I have tried installing OT 1.1.1 and started having intermittent DNS failures. I tried OT PPP 1.0 with OT 1.1.1 and could not get to work DNS wise at all. I use MACTCP 2.06 and MACPPP and it works reliably. If OT is the future, is it going to work for me?

Hi --

Are you able to connect with the server, but cannot check your Mailbox, or cannot get Netscape to open a connection (Returning some kind of DNS error)?

If so, those are the same symptoms I had with my Mac - after I put the IP server address (numeric) in the TCP/IP control panel's name server address text box, and put the server name (name.com) in the Domain search text entry box, all DNS errors went away.

Hope it works for you too --

good luck,

kevin c.

From: Robert Zusman
I doubt that this will end the confusion, but the ONLY machine that Apple ever made that had a 68020 was the original Mac II. All others had 68000, 68030, 68040 or various PowerPCs.

Not true. The Macintosh LC had a 68020, which was replaced with the LC II, which had a 68030.

So, the two machines Apple produced with the 68020 were the Macintosh II and the LC. Note that the LC was produced AFTER the Mac II was replaced by the IIx.

Hi,

The last couple posts (11.16 and 11.17, specifically) which have exceeded AOL's 32K email limit have not downloaded, with the message, "That File is no longer available or not accessible to this acccount [OK]".

My other newsletters have been downloading properly.

I'm using my DUO 280C, 12MB RAM, system 7.5.3 and AOL 2.5 while I'm out of town. (AOL 2.6 and 2.7 have been a problem for me, but 2.5 has been quite stable and reliable.)

Anyone else having this problem, or know of a solution?

TIA

Gary

According to the specifications of the Macintosh Classic, it is bootable from the ROM. Does anyone out there in Classic-land know the magic key combination to do this?

Press --- during startup.

Then the Classic boots from a "Boot disk" (357 KB, nice icon) with a System 6.0.3 and Finder 6.1x (no Multifinder).

From the info dialog: "Where: hiding inside this machine..."

The cdevs General, Brightness and Startup device and also the Appleshare mdev are available. Without disk cache 200 KB RAM is taken.

dIrk

Anyone know where I can get documentation for Adobe illustrator 1.1?

-joe

This has got to be one of the most helpfull Lists on the net... I've gotten help on the list and directly from a number of subscribers who've helped me by pointing me to needed software. This list and the people on it, are great!

-joe

does anyone know why I might be having trouble installing netscape 3.0 on a MacIIcx? important gearhead info includes: 7.5 with Mode32(7.5) and 16MB RAM.

Make sure you have a copy of Netscape 3.01. Version 3.0 had problems on 68000 Macs. Netscape released version 3.01 to fix it, but they still haven't posted the release notes on their web site. Though when you go to the download area, it calls it 3.01 instead of 3.0.

What is the latest system a SE can use and where do I get it?
Will this guy only accept 800K disks?
Can anybody identify and source cooking or recipe software that the SE will run?

System 7.0 and 7.1 and 7.1.1 are recommended. I think Apple has them available on their ftp site. Try:

ftp://ftp2.info.apple.com/Apple.Support.Area/US/Macintosh/System/Older_System

How about an address book and calendar or a PIM?
When I tried to put the shareware address book from the PowerClone onto the SE, it offered to re initialize my disk. Was this because it was a 1.4meg floppy?

The SE/30 should read 1.4 floppies. Try formatting a floppy using the SE/30, take it to the PowerCLone, put the software you want on it and putting it back in the SE/30.

TIA for the help

You're welcome.

Now for my question: I've got a 512k (don't remember if it's a 512ke or not), and the keyboard does not work. Any help from someone out there?

BTW, I've got a PowerPC 7500 with all kinds of stuff and an SE as well.

Thanks.

Pete Cox said:
A few comments: The sound problem also plagued some IIsi machines. Someone wrote an fkey called something like iisi-sound-fix or something which sent a couple of beeps to the speaker to revive it electronic means. (check info-mac).

Does anyone know exactly what this iisi-sound-fix is actually called? I brosed Info-mac and had no luck finding something with that or similar title.

I too suffer from the IIsi sound problem and would love a quick and simple fix.

(Personally, I go into control panel, and toggle sound up and down a few times and it eventually clears). But a simpler solution would be appreciated.

I'm presently running System 7.1 (along with System Update 3.0) on the LC. I assumed that going up to system 7.5.5 would chew up too much memory and slow down the machine too much. Am I correct?

You sure are! I've upgraded from System 7.1 to 7.5.3 and now 7.5.5. Each time has seen a significant increase in the system RAM. I'm using a IIci with 20MB. System 7.5.5 is currently using around 7MB of RAM. I remember System 7.1 using around 4.5MB of RAM. As far as speed goes, I ran MacBench 3.0 and there was a SLIGHT increase in graphics speed with 7.5.5.

--ben

At this point my question to who ever can help is, I down loaded Netscape 1.1 and 2.02 and when I installed 1.1 and tried to launch it, it immediately crashes and brings up the restart window and says that an address error occurred. From waht I can tell I have enough ram to run

Might the installer require 32 bit addressing? The ROMs of Macs before the IIci are not 32 bit clean and require the MODE32 control panel to switch from 24 bit to 32 bit addressing. If you don't have the MODE32 control panel, I'm sure it can be found at the Apple ftp site. http://www.support.apple.com/wwwdocs/apple_sw_updates.html. Grab the MODE32 for System 7.5 even though you're using System 7.1 . You'll need it anyway should you decide to upgrade to 7.5 in the future. The old MODE32 for System 7.1 has been reported to corrupt system files when used with System 7.5.

--ben

best prices i've seen are from Memory 1800-950-8411 non cheaper that i know of.

Here's your chance to prove your status as Mac Color Classic guru extraordinaire. Correctly answering this question and satisfying my curiosity will entitle you to wear the legendary Golden Turban of Infinite Wisdom!

Remove the logic board from a Color Classic. Hold it component side up, with the long edge connector towards you. At the bottom left of the board, just under the ROMs, you will see an unpopulated space for a 64-pin card connector. There's a blank space in the middle of it which suggests that the connector had a keying space in the center, like a VRAM SIMM does.

My question: What was intended to go in this connector, when fitted? It can't be an extra VRAM slot because it's 64 pins (VRAM is 68). It can't be an FPU slot because the board already has an FPU socket. From tracing the tracks back, the slot carries all the data buss and most or all of the address buss. What IS IT?