Table of Contents for this issue:

ClassicMACSpost
Re: MacClassic
Color Classic WANTED
Re: Classic Macs Digest 1.2
Re: Installing 7.5.X from CD
Re: SE Accelerator
Name this Mac! & other trivia...
Re: Colour Classic screen resolution
Re: imagewriterII
Classic Macs Digest 1.2
Color Classic Upgrades
B&W Classic Accelerator Board

Cool! I have the same setup @ home, without the imagewriter.
The SE needs to have System 6.0.8 or later on it. System 6.0.8 is the
last version of system 6, and the ONLY version of System 6 that is
compatible with a System7 network.

Also, I have system 7.1 on my SE, and it only uses about 1.4 megs. I
would really recomend going to system 7. If you have system 7, networking
will be MUCH better (faster, simpler, etc.).

If you currently use the ImageWriter under system 6.0.5, you will
probably need to get a new version of the driver. If I remember
correctly, System 6.0.8 uses different drivers for just about everything.

Everything I mentioned here should be online at Apple's FTP sites (i.e.
<ftp.info.apple.com>).

Can he move the memory from the Plus into the Classic?
No. The MacPlus runs on 150ns RAM, and the Classic runs on 120ns RAM.
Smaller numbers are faster, and MacPlus RAM is too old for a MacClassic.

What is the maximum memory the Classic will accept?
4MB. There are a few expansion cards you can buy tho.

How and where does he install the extra memory?
He doesn't. Unless he wants to but new RAM, in which case it goes on the
motherbard (slides out).

How about an accelerator card and where can he obtain one?
Sorry, I don't know.

How about Ram Doubler, yes or no?
Nope! RAM doubler needs a newer chip.

Can he load System 7.0.1, which he has available?
Yes! I really recomend getting System 7.0.1 AT LEAST! Actually, I would
recomend getting the newest version of the system he can get! 7.5.5 works
fine, if he has enough RAM (it uses about 2MB w/INITs, so you need 4 if
you want to run many apps).

Will the external HD work?
Yes. Some early hard drives (for models like the plus) need to plug into
the FLOPPY port (for power) as well as the SCSI port. If it needs that,
fine. PLUG ER IN!
~^-MACS FOREVER!!-^~

Hi there,
I'd like to buy a Color Classic or CC II. It may be without HDD, keyboard or
mouse. Can be *slightly* broken or not working - I need a CRT, logic board
and cover.

I can pay a cash or swap for (superb condition) Macintosh Classic II
10/160, keyb + mouse and *some* cash. You can contact me at pedro

TIA
pedro

At 7:59 PM 1/5/97, Steve Dropkin:
Subject: Re: Mac OS 7.5.3 on old Mac IIs
From: Steve Dropkin

From: Matthew Yam

3) This message appear on Mac II FX's startup screen "This startup disk
will not work on this Macintosh model. Use the latest Installer to update
this disk for this model."

VERDICT : I must have screw up somewhere or the method used is too
radical. Maybe the CD Rom is the wrong one. Standardizing the version of
OS between old Mac IIs & PowerMacs would vital to our production
environment & in house support, I appreciate if someone out there can
help out with problem.

The IIfx was always a little out-of-step with the rest of the Macintosh
lineup, but I would think it would take System 7.5 ... If you have access
to the World Wide Web, check out Apple's Tech Info Library on IIfx
issues. Or perhaps someone else here can state this for sure.

That said, I think you got it right when you said the CD-ROM is the wrong
one. You didn't mention that it worked on any of the other Mac IIs (that
would be valuable information). I can tell you that 7.5 _does_ work on
IIcx's and IIci's (I'm typing on a IIci now). In the past, I have had
problems installing the System from disks that did not belong to that
model or which were not generic. Maybe there's an extension or hard disk
driver that's incompatible?

The solution, unfortunately, probably will be to spend money. You can buy
a generic 7.5 which will install on any Macintosh. And you really should
do this anyway: Macintosh System software is not free anymore, so,
according to Apple, installing four systems from one CD is not legal.

Geez!

I decided not to respond to the original posting since the problem was
obvious and someone would get there first.

Matt, there is nothing wrong with your IIfx. I've been upgrading the
systems on my IIfx right up to 7.5.5. I wish my quadras were as reliable.

However the system you created on your drive when attached to the 7500 (? I
belive you said) is most likely a PPC version and will not run on the
68030.

Here is what you can do to install (I dont have the original message but I
assume you had a 7.5.3 or 7.5 CD which have the floppy images on them
since all the others are upgrades):

1) network your IIFX and either net install the system from the CD drive or
use shrinkwrap and copy the disk images to the FX drive.

2) If you dont have a enet card for the IIFX, copy the disc images to the
drive you are going to attach to the IIFX but boot it from its original
drive. Then use shrinkwrap to put the disc images up as apparent floppies
and instal.

Note, you could also have created floppies from the images on the CD-ROM
but why shuffle flopies in this day and age.

Finally, as Steve pointed out and given Apples current dismal state, pay
them for the 7.5 license to these machines. I run a bunch of macs in my
labs as well as at home and bought 7.5 for all of them even though I got
the new OS's since we get a new mac at leas every other year. So be a goo
citizen and keep apple alive.

BTW, the CD drives are cheap these days about $120 so get one external one
which you can then attach to the older macs. Again throw some bucks to
apple :-)

Andy

After reading Classic Mac's posting regarding old Mac IIs
running Mac OS 7.5.3 & fancy the idea I tired to install it with a Mac OS
CD Rom "Power Macintosh 7200, 7500, 7600, 8500, & 9500 Series". Yes. The
one that was bundled with the PowerMacs.

Recall this post? The original poster had tried to install his a recent
system into his IIci disk by moving the hard drive to his PowerMac and
installing from the CD that came with the PowerMac. I can't say if it is
possible to get an 68030 install from one of these CD's, but this
approach will generally not work because the installer checks the
Gestalt for the installing machine and installs only the appropriate
components. Sure, you can sometimes do a "Install for any system", but
us classic mac owners neeed to keep our aged systems lean and clean.

This is how I have done it for Pluses, SE's, and LC's:
I upgrade the destination system (using floppies) so that it supports
AppleShare. I then mount the CD on a newer machine, publish it, and then
mount the CD on the destination machine via AppleShare. I then run the
installer from the destination machine.

My personal dinosaur is a Mac Plus, 4 meg, Sys 7.5.3, 100 meg hard
drive, and a Big Picture monitor. My day-to-day is a 8500/120.

bearingman wrote:

I have an SE with 4 megs of ram and two 800K drives. During the boot process
I get a message that says Radius Accelerator 16, Version 2.0, 881. Can anyone
tell me what this accelerator is? Can I run some version of System 7 on this
computer? Can anyone suggest some way I can install a 1.44 drive on this
computer?

I think the accelerator has a 68020 running at 16 mhz, with 6881 FPU - I
have the 25 mhz version, and that's an 020.

"Version 2.0" refers to the ROM on board the accelerator - I'm fairly sure
that with this version you are limited to System 6.x. If Radius still do it
you can have the ROM upgraded to the final Version 2.1, allowing you to go
up to System 7.1, but no further. The final version of the Accelerator
software was Version 2.9, which used to be (still is?) available from
America Online, CompuServe, ftp.radius.com, and a Radius BBS at
408-541-6190. I think the 2.1 ROM is required for this software. With the
2.0 ROM I seem to remember you need Accelerator software Version 2.5.

The accelerator card has a socket on it for an optional Radius monitor card
- you could hook up a mono Two Page Display or Full Page Display. In fact,
some SEs which have these monitor cards installed get separated from their
monitors when companies upgrade and carelessly dump old kit. If your SE has
a video-type connector to the left of the power socket, above and between
the SCSI port and ADB sockets, then you've probably got a card inside. If
you upgrade the accelerator ROM, a monitor card with anything less than a
Version 4.4 ROM might cause compatibility problems. These monitor cards can
be removed quite easily though - they're useless without the monitor of course.

Apple used to sell a Superdrive upgrade kit for the SE. You'd be lucky to
find one today, though it's worth trying dealers who specialise in old Macs
and the Usenet newsgroups comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc and
misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc. Perhaps you could cannibalise
the three necessary chips from a dead SE/30 logic board, or one from a
late-model SE fitted with a SuperDrive.

The following info came from somewhere on the Net. I haven't tried it out
and can't vouch for it, but it might help...

clip >>>>

============================================================

UPGRADING SE WITH HIGH-DENSITY DRIVE:
************************************

I'm trying to upgrade an old SE to read high density disks. I have the
correct Apple FDHD chip kit and the drive, but its not obvious which chips
replace which chips. There are 3 chips on the motherboard that are
obvious candidates. They have code numbers:
(1st chip) 721 VM H357, 231024-1042, 342-0352-A;
(2nd chip) 721 VM H502, 231024-1043, 342-0353-A;
(3rd chip) 719 V H206U, VF4060-1PD, 344-0043A.

The chips I have are:
(1st chip) 341-0701, TC531000CP-F734;
(2nd chip) 341-0702, TC531000CP-F735;
(3rd chip) VLSI 9032BV 150042, VC2982-0001, 344-0062-A.
Can anyone provide guidance to determine which chips go where?

According to Larry Pina in 'Mac Classic & SE Repair and Upgrade Secrets':

original chip: replace with:

342-0352-A HI ROM 342-0701 HI ROM
342-0353-A LO ROM 342-0702 LO ROM
344-0043-A IWM 344-0062-01 SWM
-----------

Applied Engineering's HD+ works with any Mac. It plugs into the
floppy port of a Plus or SE and has an INIT which installs a driver
to handle the HD format for Macs without the SWM chip.
-----------

800K drives have Sony part numbers like MP-F51W-23 (on the bottom), while
superdrives have numbers like MP-F75W-10G. The easiest way to tell them
apart is to look at the front where you put the disk in; 800K drives have
two lever-type switches, while superdrives have three switches that have
cylindrical push-buttons.

end clip >>>

========================================================

I hope all this helps. Good luck with the SE.

Chris Adams.

In addition to the MacPlus I have been writing about recently, I have
another ancient mac which I cannot identify:

It is beige, has 1 meg of RAM, an 800k internal floppy drive, and no name
on the case.

For connectors, it has the old style 9-pin rectangular (what is this
called?) printer port, the old mouse connector (also 9-pin, I think), and
no SCSI, just a external floppy port.

What is this? I thought it was an upgraded 512ke, but someone has told me
it is an early Plus.

And while I'm at it, I hear that there was an external HD that could plug
into the floppy port, called HD20, or something. Is this the right name,
and any suggestions for used places I might call to see if I can get one?
Anyone want to sell one from this group? (Sorry - breach of group
etiquette, there, I guess.)

And ANOTHER identification question: I have an Apple dot matrix printer
with no name on it, same beige color as the Mac. I would assume it is
either an ImageWriter I or II. How can I tell the difference? And if I
want to find a cable for it, is the connection for an IWI different than
an IWII?

Believe it or not, I HAVE looked elsewhere for answers, but I still have
none.

Any takers?

Thanks, you old Mac lovers, you.

-- Bret
Bret Alan Fessenden
Cynthia Benner
bfessenden
http://top.monad.net:80/~bfessenden/

Derrick Lala wrote

Some of my daughter's CDROMs will not play on the colour classic which is
equivalent to the Apple 12in. monitor, and a 14in. is required because of
the screen resolution. Is there a software-based solution for this? TIA.

Short answer: No.

Long answer:
This is not a matter of resolution, but screen size.
Resolution is dot pitch or pixels per inch.

Old 13 inch monitors seem to be available for about $150.
Shop hard and you will find one for less.
But you will then need to increase the video ram to 512KB.
But keep the 12 inch as you can swap monitors as
you can get 16 bit color on it with the new video ram.

Bruce

- via Productivity OnLine - Cincinnati, OH

jocelyn d. weissman wrote:

Am trying to set up a small localtalk network(via phone net) between a
6100(sys 7.5.5), hp deskwriter and my old imagewriterII and my old SE(sys
6.0.5,4megs). Found from the apple tech info files that i need a localtalk
option card for the imagewriter. does anyone know where to get this?

I have one of those cards.
Bought it at a computer fair.
Works well, but slight slowdown in printing speed.

> also which system do i need for the SE to be seen by the 6100-obvious less =
> ram the better...?

Why are you still using 6.0.5 when 6.0.8 is frely available.
Install 6.0.8 and make sure to select the workstation option.
Then you can see system 7 shared volumes with the chooser. Works fine.
But you will need system 7 on the SE for the other machines to see it.

Bruce

Greetings!

From: Bob Gilbert

I have a friend who has just been given a B&W Classic Mac.
Note it is B&W and not the color version. He has a Mac
Plus with problems which he is retiring. The Plus has an
external 80Meg HD and 2-2Meg memory chips installed,
apparently the Classic has 4-250K chips currently
installed. He would like to remove the 2-2 memory chips
and install in the Classic...

What??? This doesn't make sense!?! The Mac Plus -does not-
support 2 Meg SIMMs (I know I've tried). Also, the Mac
Classic has only 2 SIMM slots (and then only if the optional
expansion board is installed), so it couldn't possibly have
4 256K SIMMs.

Can he move the memory from the Plus into the Classic?

It depends. The original Plus shipped with SIMMs rated for
150ns. This would be too slow for a Classic. If the Plus
has any 256K or 1 Meg SIMMs rated at 120ns or faster, they
can be used in the Classic (note: see next answer below).

What is the maximum memory the Classic will accept?
How and where does he install the extra memory?

The Classic is expandable up to 4 Megs. It was originally
shipped with 1 Meg (soldered to the motherboard). To use
more SIMMs, an expansion board (pn M6361LL/A) would have
to be purchased and installed. This expansion board has
1 Meg soldered to it and has 2 SIMM slots (a jumper needs
to be moved on the expansion board to enable the slots).
Sidebar: I've heard that there are 1 Meg SIMMs around
with only 2 chips soldered to them, and that they behave
erratically in a Classic. Keep an eye out for that.

How about an accelerator card and where can he obtain one?

Since the Classic doesn't have a PDS or NuBus slot there is
no such thing, per se, as an accelerator card for the Classic.
I know Sonnet puts out a 68030 25Mhz accelerator for the Mac
Classis which plugs into the CPU slot (thus replacing the
68000 chip), which goes for about $175.

How about Ram Doubler, yes or no?

No. Any form of 'virtual memory' requires a PMMU chip (Page
Memory Management Unit). The Classic does not have one, nor
can one be installed. You might consider RAM Charger. It
improves memory management by increasing it's efficiency, and
is usable (according their sales pitch) on Macs as old as
the Plus.

Can he load System 7.0.1, which he has available?

Yup. For what it's worth, I occasionally run 7.5.5 on my Plus.

Will the external HD work?

Properly installed (terminators where needed, etc), definitely.

Hope this helps!! :)

George / Mac and DTP RTs @ Genie
-- Sent using Online Servant 1.36

I'm aware of various upgrades for the Color Classic:

a) Sonnet LC040 - 68040@25/50MHz, no SIMMs, $199 www.sonnettech.com
b) ThunderCachePro - 68030@50MHz, 4 SIMM sockets, $299 www.micromac.com
c) Daystar ??? - no longer manufactured?

Can anyone comment on any of the above?

I'm looking for something for my CC, new or secondhand, that (ideally)
boosts both CPU speed and memory for a reasonable amount of money.

Thanks!

Tim

My friend with the B&W Classic would like to buy an accelerator board. Anyone
either have a used board for sale or know a company where he can get one?

bob_gilbert