Table of Contents for this issue:

Mac Plus startup from zip?
Some system 6 files?
Upgrading Memory in a Mac Classic II
128k Mac User Group
[SUMMARY] Mac Plus and HD problem
Padded Carrying Case for "Toaster" Macs?
Networking Plus and SE
Re: Classic Macs Digest 3.15
The Well
No System 7 with Radius monitor
Wrong reply....
ibm.net as ISP...
Origional Macintosh Question
LCII battery (?)
Re: Classic Macs via ibm net
Re: Compact Virtual
Re: Networking Plus and SE; me, too
network two toasters
Faxing out on a Mac Classic
Old Macs on the web
duo clock
RE: Classic Macs Digest 3.15

I know that the plus is not generally able to startup
from a removeable SCSI device. I was wondering if it is
possible, however, to make it do just that. My thought
was to start with a blank disk already in the zip and
none of the zip tools in my system folder. Then
formating the disk with another formatting utility, say
SilverLining, then installing my system and other files.
I understand that I would not be able to change disks
while running as my system folder would be on the zip
and would not have the zip tools in anyway. It is
getting hard to find good (new) small hard drives, the
zip is cheap and reliable and fast enuf to be the HD for
a plus (small and resonably quiet when running too).
Also it would travel well to newer hardware down the
road.

Will my idea work? Is there another way without doing
the switch launch?

Thanx for your help before I buy,

NeonGooch

I was wondering what is the purpose of two system 6.0.7
files that are installed by the standard install, but
not by the minimum install.

1. The system document "easy access". This is not the
system 7 control panel Easy Access or the system 6
control panel Close View. It is not a control panel but
a system document.

2. The system document "da handler".

Answers to either or both would be appriciated. I think
I know what everything else in the system disks do.

NeonGooch

Can someone point me to a source for information on
upgrading memory in a Mac Classic II? I just bought one
with 4MB and I would like to upgrade.

Thanks!!
cs

I've just put up a page on the 128k Macintosh. Any
comments or additions from any user on this list are
appreciated. Included are tips to identify a 128k
macintosh, technical specs, and (share)ware. If you use
a BabyMac, plese join in by dropping me an email, and
I'll notify you of updates to the site. As info on the
128k mac that ive found on the web is sketchy, im
compling a list of links to pull together what i found
and went through a few months ago when i set up my mac.

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/2323/128kmug.html

My original post (edited):

This is a continuation of a problem I have been trying
to solve for three months now, and it is being posted
to Mac-Wizards and Classic-Mac:

I have a 6115CD with an extra 350 Quantum drive MYSELF,
and I had purchased a Mac Plus with 4 megs of RAM and
an external 20SC Apple HD for a friend of mine.

The Mac Plus could not "see" the drive at all, not even
with numerous SCSI scanning devices and numerous
variations on ID #, terminators (flow-through,
standard, 25-pin, 50-pin, etc.) and cables.

Now, MY 6115 could see, format and test the drive just
fine (I know that you are not supposed to format a
drive from a different computer, but I had no choice),
and I tried formatting the drive with numerous (READ -
more than 5) different utilities, and at all
interleaves 1 - 3. The Mac Plus STILL could not see
the drive AT ALL.

SO, I plugged MY external 350 Quantum into the Mac Plus
(with the SAME cables and terminators), and the Mac
Plus could see THAT drive with no problems.
Unfortunetly, I could not afford to sell or give my
drive to my friend, so that was out as a solution.

ANYWAY: So I could not figure out whether the drive or
the Mac Plus was at fault, so I bought ANOTHER 20 meg
external drive (a HDC, or something like that).

SAME THING all over again! MY 6115 can see this new 20
meg drive just fine, can format it, test it, etc. etc.
etc., but the Mac Plus cannot, no matter what
configuration, interleave, driver, etc. etc. etc. etc.
etc. etc. etc. I try.

So the Mac Plus can see and use ONLY MY 350 mag drive,
and MY 6115 can see and use all three, but I cannot get
either of the two small drives to work AT ALL with the
Mac Plus.

I have tried, as I said, every possible combination of
cables, terminators, ID #'s, formatters possible, and
the Mac Plus will STILL NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE
IS A DRIVE HOOKED UP. I have tried making a longer
chain with MY 350 Quantum drive hooked up, along with
my ZIP drive. The Mac Plus can see and use BOTH just
fine UNTIL I hook up EITHER 20 meg drive (ANYWHERE in
the chain!), and then the Mac Plus cannot see ANY OF
THE DRIVES (ZIP, QUANTUM, 20SC or HDC 20).

I received many responses, and quite a few of them
seemed to point to one thing, as you can read for
yourself:

Eric Naujock replied:

The mac plus and the mac portable for that matter do
not provide termination power. As a result the external
devices have to provide it. Make sure this external
drive is providing termination power. Usually it is a
jumper on the main drive.

"Rick Collins" also said:

It turns out in the old days that sometimes the
computer supplied power to the terminator resistors
and sometimes the hard drive supplies the power and
without power the resistors are useless and can even
kill the SCSI chain. Your newer hard drive probably
has a jumper select to supply power where the older
drives may be expecting it from the computer, a guess.

and AFCChip also said:

There are a few quirks with the Mac Plus SCSI port, the
main one being that it does not supply power for
termination, unlike every other Mac made.

I'm guessing that the two 20 meg drives you've tried so
far REQUIRE termination power, and just aren't getting
it.

Anyway, this seems like the most logical solution, as
the following people also said pretty much the same
thing: Max Pruden, Dale Talcott
Trevor Misisco, Edwin C. Togami, Scott Holmes, Robert Eye,
Robert Zusman, Edwin C. Togami

I have opened up the drives, and I cannot find any
jumpers, and both fuses are okay, so I have concluded
that it is beyond my technical expertise to continue.
I'll keep looking for other drives, and perhaps one of
these will work.

Many thanks to all who responded.

-- Bret

Bret Alan Fessenden
Cynthia Benner

http://top.monad.net:80/~bfessenden/

Greetings, folks!

I just finished tweaking an SE and an SE/30 back into
happy Macs.

I'm going to use the SE/30 as a portable Mac for the
foreseeable future, and I 'd like to purchase a padded
carrying case for it.

I remember that such an item used to be hot on the Mac
mail order circuit. The bag also had partitions to
protect the keyboard, and modem. Does anyone know where
I might be able to find this bag nowadays?

Tony Spinetta

Re: Networking Plus and SE

There was a program called
'Tops' that allowed one to make a Mac under System
6.0.x be a server. With the advent of System 7 and
personal file sharing, that program and company went
away.

I have one copy of TOPS. In order to use it, you must
have a separate copy (not a duplicate) for each computer
that is hooked up to the network. It can tell if you
are trying to use a duplicate and won't work. Unless
there is a hack for this, it might be beneficial for a
few people to swap their copies around and each of us
would end up with several separte copies.

george

Date sent: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 11:58:19 -0500
To: classic-post@hitznet.com
From: Tim Scoff
Subject: Hooking a Mac SE up to the internet

Hi,
I have an SE with a 4/20 configuration with the 1.4 floppy. I am
unable to run system 7 on it because the Radius full
page display that I have hooked up to the computer is
not compatible, so I have to use 6.0.8

I have a Radius FPD attached to my SE, too: equipped
with the 25MHz '020 accelerator board as well as the FPD
board. I run 7.1 on this setup, after downloading the
following from Radius' ftp site:

Classic/SE/+ Display 4.1 Sep 1991

Accel2_9 Folder
---------------
Radius Accelerator 2.9 Sep 1991
Radius MATH * 1.5 Apr 1991

sePatch Folder
--------------
020 Accelerator SE Patch 1.0d1 Apr 1992
READ ME (Accelerator Patch) May 1993

[* I haven't installed this, as I believe the maths
routines in 7.1 are faster... -- although I _may_ be
wrong, of course!]

The READ ME files contains this:

8<------------------------------------------------------

Accelerator Patch 7.1

020 Accelerator Patch, version 1.0, enables the Radius
SE Accelerator 16, Accelerator 25 to operate System 7.01
or System 7.1.

In order to properly use this Patch you must have a:
Radius Accelerator 16 or Radius Accelerator 25 which
must have ROM version 2.1 on the Accelerator and you
must run Radius Accelerator Software version 2.9.

If you are using a Radius Full Page Display or Two Page
Display with your Mac SE accelerator you will also need
to have ROM version 4.4 on your Full Page Display/Two
Page Display interface card.

When you first turn on your Macintosh, you will see a
window that says, "RADIUS ACCELERATOR 16" OR "RADIUS
ACCELERATOR 25". In the lower right hand corner you will
see a number for the ROM version on your accelerator. If
your ROM is not version 2.1 or later, please contact
Radius Technical Support at (408) 434-1012.

If you are unsure about which ROM versions you have,
consult your User's manual, or contact Radius Technical
Support at (408) 434-1012

8<------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps...

Here is some news for "Classic Mac" users. The WELL (of
Whole Earth Catalog fame) offers 'The Whole Works." It
has a Netscape WWW Browser, Eudora Mail, Telnet, FTP,
Usenet News Reader, Gopher and more. Hardware
requirements are: "An Apple Macintosh Computer running
System 7 or higher (System 7.! with PPP Floater), 5 meg
of free disk space, 4 meg of RAM ( 8 recommended), 9600
or faster baud modem. If you don't have the necessary
hardware or software to run Whole Works, you can still
access the Internet, WELL conferencing and electronic
mail through a terminal session. The WELL-415-332-9200
or 415-281-6500.

John Szostek

Tim Scoff wrote:

I have an SE with a 4/20 configuration with the 1.4
floppy. I am unable to run system 7 on it because the
Radius full page display that I have hooked up to the
computer is not compatible, so I have to use 6.0.8.

Tim,

You can upgrade the ROMS on the Radius FPD card so that
it is compatible up to System 7.1. The ROM version you
need is v4.4. I don't suppose Radius stock them any
more, and the cost from them or a dealer would probably
not be economic, but you could try advertising in the
Mac newsgroups etc.

Chris Adams.

In reply to:

You need a keyboard cord to go to the Mac, a common
phone cable works fine.

For a Mac Plus, this is simply wrong advice. A curly
handset telephone cord WILL NOT WORK. Reason being the
wires are reversed inside. You will either have to do
the surgery yourself or get a real Mac Plus keyboard
cord.

--bj

In reply to:

From: hoosier
Date sent: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:18:31 +0700
To: cmpost <classic-post@hitznet.com>
Subject: Re: Accessing Ibm,net with Classic II

Has anybody use ibmnet successfully ? I tried but
pppdidn't work. Consulting helpdesk@ibm.net their answer
was they didn't have the Mac sofware and suggested to
get it from Apple Com. If anybody knows what is the
necessary sofware, please email me. The reason is simply
my company get rid of apple machine and bought
peeceemachine and subscribe to ib.net.

TIA Victor.

I have been using ibm.net for almost a year now. Am
very satisfied with their customer service, 24 hrs. a
day--someone *always* calls you back if you can't get
through to a technician on the phone. They have server
outages just like any other ISP from time to time, but I
find that they are on the whole a decent ISP--with
world-wide connectibility.

My setup? I use both MacSlip/O.T. and O.T.PPP/O.T. on
two different Power Macs. I use MacSlip and MacTCP on
my Classic macs--ALL of them, from the Plus, SE, Classic
II, and PB 160. All work fine. The Mac software to get
you started IS available on their sub-web page, although
it's a bit dated, but it's certainly enough to get you
started. I believe their setup includes InterSlip and
MacTCP.

--bj

I have recently aquired an original 128k Macintosh (for
5 bucks)... Its in great condition ... It looks as if it
has been in its box since 1984. There is no mouse and
no supporting software for the dual single sided drives
(300k?? floppies). What would I need??? system 5??? to
get it up and running ( AND WHERE WOULD I FIND IT???) I
might add that I am in a Mac unfriendly area. Also, I
have another (more modified) 512 that has been upgraded
to a Plus with a SCSI port out the back and 2 megs of
RAM. I was using the modified Plus as a print spooler,
but what I would like to know is, is there any way to
turn these two into a "terminal" type of interface where
you directly connct to a network without an OS????? Just
a thought... ANY ideas of older OS possibilities... I
just enjoy seeing these old Macs outdo the PEECEES of
today. Any SUPPORTIVE suggestions would be much
appreciated.... Thanks..

Brevard.

The battery on my LCII has about 9M hours on it and has
never been changed. The box has started acting freaky,
as dropping to black and white.

Is there a test on a floppy for battery condition? I
guess common sense dictates that I change the beast.
Does anyone know the battery specs so I can have it on
hand when I open the case?

Dick Johnson

Dear Classic Mac Readers,

I have been trying in vain to use ibm.net as a
connection for my Classic II. Does anyone have a success
story accessing internet with Mac Classic via Ibm.net?
My office got rid of Apple machines, but I wouldstick to
my personal Mac Classic. Please advise.

TIA Victor

Does anyone know a source for CompactVirtual? I will be
grateful for any leads --

thanks,
kevin c.

Hi Kevin..The compat virtual control panel is available
from Micromac at http://www.micromac.com I think the
price is $79, a little expensive if you ask me !

LF
http://members.aol.com/mac2k

I have aquired a Mac Plus and SE. I would like to
network them so I can exchange software and use as a
communication device at my home (to play with). What
do I need to network in System 6.08 ?

You need either the AppleShare FileServer version 2 (or
so) that will run on system 6, or a little CDEV that
was available back in 1989 called Public Folder. The
physical networking requires 2 localtalk connectors
(one for each computer) and some telephone wire.

If you want me to try to dig up my copy of public
folder (I THINK I still have a copy at work) send me
e-mail & I'll try to find it for you. It was not a
pretty way of sharing files, but it worked and the
AppleShare file server is VERY expensive, and when it
is running it locks up your Mac so all it is useful for
is being a file server.

Tim Scoff
<http://www.nb.net/~casper/>

Tim: I, too, have several Mac Pluses, and an LC575 I
want to hook up together at my son's school to serve as
wordprocessors in a 6th-7th class. Sounds like your
Public Folder may be a way, or do you have any other
suggestions? Can I run 6.0.8 on the Pluses, and 7.x on
the LC575? What I want is to use ClarisWorks 2.x or 3.x
on the Pluses for simple wordprocessing for multiple
students (I have inheirited 8 Pluses) and then they can
either print it from the network (can they print to a
Stylewriter 2500?) or I think I'll just have to transfer
them to the LC575 and print from there. If students
wanted to jazz up their work with graphics or color they
could on the LC575, but most just need to get the text
down and printed. Your ideas, and those of the group,
are welcome.

Thanks,
Curt Kiest LSAS

Date sent: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 22:04:16 -0500
To: classic-post@hitznet.com
From: Terry Galka
Subject: Networking Plus and SE

I have aquired a Mac Plus and SE. I would like to
network them so I can exchange software and use as a
communication device at my home (to play with). What do
I need to network in System 6.08 ?

Thanks,
Terry

As long as you will be networking just the 2 Macs, you
don't need to use anything fancier than a printer cable. Connect the two
Macs using the printer cable from Printer port to
Printer port.

There is an Apple extension called Responder. One Mac
will need to run System 7.5.5 to act as a file server. I run 7.5.5 on my
Plus. Or run System 7.5.5 on both Macs :) Books like
"Macintosh Secrets" have a section on LocalTalk
networking for old and new Macs.

No need to buy phonenet connectors. You only need to
use such devices if you are going to have more than two Macs or other
devices like printers networked.

Mike

At http://www.walli.uwasa.fi/~mhaveri/68000.txt, it is
mentioned that several fax programs are capable of being
run on the Classic (ie.FaxSTF 2.6.1, MaxFax 3.32 and
Valuefax 2.0.9). Has any one on a Mac Classic had
success with faxing? What would be a compatible modem
to run with these programs? And where would you get the
programs? For example my linelink 144e came bundled
with MaxFax 3.51 but this program would only run on a
68020 or better. Positve advice on this matter would
probably boost my productivity a hundred-fold {8-)

thankyou

<http://www.tiac.net/users/lagertam/>

Apologies to those who've seen this before:

Hello All

For those of you who want to get on the web with a
browser on a Plus, SE or SE/30, Portable or other 68000
series Mac, here's the URL for the MacWeb browser:

<Http://www.eden.com/~arena/jagshouse/macweb.hqx>

It will work with Macs with 4 megs minimum.

Here's the URL for an instruction manual on how to do
it:

<Http://www.eden.com/~arena/jagshouse/compactmac.hqx>

and for classic Mac shareware (really nifty extensions
and control panels too!) go to
http://www.eden.com/~arena/jagshouse/classic.html also
see my shareware page

Http://www.eden.com/~arena/jagshouse/Shareware.html

Enjoy!
JAG

hello

i have read on this list about mac date problems caused
by dead batteries. i am not sure if this is what i am
facing. i have a duo 230 and a duo dock, and a few
periferals, all drawing power from a power (surge)
strip. recently, my duo began to start up as soon as i
turn the power strip on (i.e. without waiting for me to
press the power button on the keyboard. also, the
date/time reset back to 12:00 1/1/04.

can anyone help me identifying the cause of this
problem? if it is the on-board battery, where is it (duo
or dock)? how do i replace it? and what kind of battery
is it...?

thanks much
hilal

Date sent: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 11:58:19 -0500
To: classic-post@hitznet.com
From: Tim Scoff
Subject: Hooking a Mac SE up to the internet

Hi,

I have an SE with a 4/20 configuration
with the 1.4 floppy. I am unable to run system
7 on it because the Radius full page display that I
have hooked up to the computer is not compatible,
so I have to use 6.0.8. I have a copy of MacTCP
from 1989 and I want to use it to hook up to the
internet. I have the Apple Internet Connection Kit
(on a 6100) and I also have a copy of the InterSLIP
control panel/extension.

Please send me any recomendations as to what software I need to
hook up to the internet. I have MacWeb 2.0, but I
heard that it won't work with system 6, and I have
NewsWatcher and Eudora. The only thing that I'm
missing is a web browser (I think) that will work
on my SE.

Check out www.radius.com for the latest software or
contact their tech support. They have a lot of old
software if you know exactly the type of card you have.

PBJ