Table of Contents for this issue:
Various Subject Posts
System 7.1 update 3 1.44MB README message
Quest for the Original Mac 128K Images
AppleTalk, Serial Ports, and Modems
Re: CC -> Performa 6200/100 logic board
Mac Plus: The Second Button Mystery
SE Signatures
Problems with MacWeb 1.0a3.2
Re: When an HQX File Isn't
The Plus and the Zip Drive: Another Strategy
Re: Mac Modem Speeds
Good Internet Apps; Installing 30-pin SIMMs
Rebuilding the Desktop on ZIPs...
The Details on System 7.1.1 and 7.1.2
Saving Data from a Dead-Screen SE
Info on "Jam Session"
SE/30 Logic Board Components
Re: Duodock Won't Boot
Re: SE/30 Video Problems
Re: MacPlus vs Zip drive
Networking With 7.6

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: Subject fields may be changed for clarity, and will match with the post to facilitate text search features.]

Dear Classic Mac,
Here are a few observations from recent lists:

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: My sincerest apologies to Peter Anderson-Stewart for omitting some of his message that was posted earlier. I forgot to include some parts of it that followed the README; I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.]

i)SE/30 stuff;
The SE/30 was also slated to be named with the same suffix as IIx, IIcx,
IIfx; talk about puritans.

ii)Double boot during startup; the most likley culprit (if installed) is
MEO (Macintosh Easy Open), possible solution, turn off all extensions and
control panels EXCEPT MEO, restart and use TechTool to delete the desktop
and allow TechTool to build a completely new desktop (not just rebuild it),
turn on all extensions and control panels then restart. MEO performs its
own rebuild if it cannot see its own file maps, thus if it gets confused it
will reboot when it reaches the point where it is installed at start up
(IMHO). Your milage may vary.

iii)Ok, when is someone going to announce that there is a logic board swap
that makes the Colour Classic/Performa 250 a 9600/200MP? Seriously folks,
looking at the logic board shapes, sizes and connection differences, IMHO,
it's difficult to imagine anything more than the 520 form logic board
fitting in, BTW the 580 is only an 68LC040 chip anyway. I'm sure someone
could "engineer" a board to fit in there, the same way petrolheads squeeze
7.2 litre V8s into Beetles or Porsche 911 engines into NSU Ro 80s, it can
be done, but it certainly is not pretty, reliable or something you would
want to sit down to drive every day.

I've checked out the ARC and they sure enough offer an upgrade for CC/P250
to 575 logic board and I can see where the possible 6200/100 confusion
arises, the 520 form Macs are listed as being upgradable to PPC in the
Apple Spec Database, whether the board is an add on or a complete swap I
have no idea, but it would be nice if someone could track down this urban
myth and either dispel or confirm it (ARC also mention that the 580 can use
the LC/Quadra/Performa 5200, 630, 6200 logic board, by extrapolation this
may imply that it will fit into a CC/P250).

Either way you cut it the upgrades from ARC run at $465 US for the 550 L/B
w/o FPU, ‰ $520 US for the 575 and $800 US for a 6200/75, Sun Remarketing
appeared to be more expensive on all prices. As I said, it would be nice if
someone with access to the relevant models, L/Bs and upgrade cards could
check this all out.

Sorry I've taken up so much space Mr Moderator, please feel free to edit
these ravings.

All the best, and keep up the good work.
Be seeing you, PA-S.

Sorry,

I forgot to send the 1.44 Mb 7.1 System Update 3.0 Read Me, I only
gave you the 800 kb one for the Plus, SE and II. Herewith find attached the
high density version for all the others.

Yes, 7.1.2 was for early Power Macs, the 6100/7100/8100 series were
the first to be issued with it in March 1994 and the PPC upgrade card for
my Quadra 650 came with 7.1.2.

All the best, sorry for the extra Read Me, I'll send it as an attachment.

[MODERATOR'S NOTE: Okay, if any of you want the 1.44MB readme file, send me
an e-mail saying so, with the SUBJECT field reading: System 7.1 Hi-Density
Snippet. I'll do this in the same fashion as the previous post, as these
READMEs are a tad too long to print in the Digest itself.]

Be seeing you, PA-S.

Peter Anderson-Stewart

Greetings.

I am new to this list, but several of you out there might have seen my
name around. I'm a big classic Mac enthusiast.

For almost a year now I've been looking for the MacPaint images that came
with the original 128K Mac- they include a picture of a sneaker, a
Japanese woodblock of a woman combing her hair, and fish (those are the
ones I remember).

Finding these images has been much harder than I expected. If anyone out
there finds them, I would be eternally gratful if you could email them to
me. Finding these pictures has become something of a quest.

I want to use the images as part of a software archive I am setting up on
the net. It's not ready yet, but when finished, it will hold about 10
megs of pre-1985 software.

I recently uploaded much of this software to Terrance Higgins and to the
Classic Mac User's group. Hopefully some of this software will be posted
on their respective home pages soon <http://www.uwm.edu/~thig/plus.html>, <http://192.216.191.21/SiliconValley/Heights/7275/home.html>.

I hope to hear from you,

until then,

good luck and happy computing.

Raul

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 97 11:05:05 CST
From: Robert Eye
To: classic-post@hitznet.com
Subject: Mac Modem Speeds

Older Macs CAN *USE* modems up to 33.6k (and possibly the new 56k modems; I
see no reason why not).

What they cannot do is process the incoming data at a rate comparable to the
modem's rate.

This is a limitation of the speed of the rest of the hardware, and NOT of the
serial ports themselves. Older Mac serial ports can run at 57600 bps or
greater (depending on how they are clocked).

AppleTalk runs at 230kBPS... The original spec said a Mac could run at
960kBPS and it was hoped to use the serial bus for Hard drives etc.

In terms of modems, I read out of copy of "MacAddict" that some of the
older Macs (like the Mac II) cannot run a modem speed passed 9600 Baud.
Keep that in mind when doing your buying. You may save a few $$$.

Mac Addict also said that a Mac Plus had a AA size battery in it and
that in their office full of Macs, each Mac had a different type of
Battery. There are only about 3 different types across the entire Mac
range.

PBJ

Umm, I'm running 19.2k on my Mac II. What am I doing wrong? ;-)

Nothing!! want a Dove '030 33MHz accelerator? It's not 100% compatible.

PBJ

Wade Martinson wrote:

Hi everyone,

I recall that several years ago, someone figured out how to
replace the Color Classic's logic board with one from an
LC580, thus giving it a 33MHz 68040, wider bus, and 640x480
display resolution. While looking for info on this upgrade
on the web, I found a page that (I think) talks about
replacing the Color Classic's logic board with the board from
a Performa 6200/100, which would give it a 100 MHz PPC603
CPU.

Unfortunately, the page is in Japanese (again, I'm not sure).

Could someone take a look at it and figure out what it says?

The URL is <http://maxuscomputer.com/070.html>. Also, does
anyone have info on the logic board swap using the LC580
board?

Thanks,

Wade Martinson

Perhaps I can make myself useful at last. I had a look and this is indeed
what it says. A rough summary:

Maxus, the company in question, is offering logic board upgrades for the
"LC520/LC575", "LC3/LC/475" and the Color Classic. They say the upgrade will
leave you with a PowerMac6200/75/100.

You've got to take your box in or ship it to them. The upgrade entails a
great deal of work inside the box, including replacing the logic board,
adding stuff they make themselves, some "processing" on the cabinet,
"bolstering" the power supply and possibly some other work. [The wording is
vague.] All this takes ten days to two weeks.

One note on the OS say that the standard upgrade puts English system 7.1.2
on your hard disk, another says that the upgrade can run KanjiTalk 7.5
(roughly equivalent, I think to the regular 7.5 OS).

Some of the specs:
CPU -- PowerPC603(75/100MHz)
L2 cache -- 256KB SRAM
ROM -- 4MB
RAM -- 16MB, expandable to 64MB
Display -- 640x480, 32,768 colors (internal monitor)
Sound output -- 22.1kHz sampling, 8-bit stereo
Sound input -- 22.1kHz sampling, 8-bit mono
Expandability -- "LC PDS (96+16-pin connector used)" [whatever that may mean]

Another page at the same site gives these contact numbers & URLs:
Phone: +81-3-5296-0486 [11:00 a.m. - 7:00 p.m. Japan time]
Fax: +81-45-912-0041, then input #90001 for Mac-related stuff
WWW: www.maxuscomputer.com
E-mail: sales@maxus.iiga.co.jp

No word that I could see on how much any of this would cost. I tried phoning
but it's not 11:00 yet.

I plan to look into this further myself. In particular, I want to go round
and see an upgraded Color Classic. If and when I do so, what should I look
for? What would be the relevant benchmarks to try on the one I've got at
home and then another they will have to show me before I put any money into
this?

I welcome private mail on this if you think it would be noise to the list.

Regards,
Tod McAvoy

I have a Macintosh Plus 1 MB with system 6.0.3 and an external HD.
My question deals about a mystery about the mac.

Probably everyone knows that you can add two buttons on the side of
the Mac on a "hidden" plug, on the left. The first button reboots the
Mac, but the second one makes a small window appairs with just ">".
I never found anything in any book about what it could serve or how
use it. The only thing I know is that you can exit it by typing "G".

So, if anyone has the solution, if anyone knows anything about this,
or has got a good adress on the net for that, please answer to
classic mac.

Thanks,
David Rinsveldt,
Paris, France

P.S. : A few months ago I lauched a question about how to download
Mac Files with a P.C. on the net. The solutions explained here were
good, so I thank peoples who helps me.

Yeah, there are Signatures of the Mac team on the SE,but mostly
in the early versions of this mac..Those SE's were basically
the dual 800 K no Hard drive versions,although I have seen a
few SE's that were the 1mb ram,800k floppy,and 20mb HD..

Moving on to a quick question..does anyone know of the web site
for Dynamic Engineering ? I'm looking to RETRO FIT my powerBook 100..

as Elvis would say in rapid fire..'THANKYOUVERYMUCH!'

Nick Canterucci
Memphis

I'm sending this from my MacPlus that I just got hooked to the internet. I
seem to be having a little trouble with MacWeb 1.0a3.2. I'm able to pull up
my servers homepage (www.earthlink.net) but when I try to get other
addresses (i.e. http://www.apple.com, http://www.excite.comm, ect.) I get
an error that says: ERROR 500. CAN'T ACCESS DOCUMENT www.apple.com. REASON;
CAN'T LOCATE REMOTE HOST www.apple.com.

Is there something I'm doing wrong, or do I need to check out some other
browsers.

Thanks for any help

rexrogers

In a message dated 97-04-01 02:49:10 EST, you write:

Subject: When an HQX File Isn't

Hello,

I was wondering what you use to prepare your Mac Shareware files for
distributing them over the Internet. I downloaded almost every file you had
(they look like fun), but neither StuffIt Expander nor BinHex 5.0 had any
luck in expanding them. I have never had any success with straight-up .SIT
files on the Internet, and the only files I can use are Bin-Hexed (.HQX).
Do you Bin-Hex them at all? Do you have any suggestions as far as what I
can do to make them work?

The reason that BinHexing is so critical (at least, to me) is that binary
files like .SIT files don't usually transfer well, and this problem becomes
even greater when I surf for files for my Mac SE--I have to use my Windoze
machine, which recognizes HQX files fine, but can't do anything with regular
files. I then have to use Executor, a Mac OS emulator for the IBM, which
allows me to 1) use StuffIt Expander to decode and expand the files, and
then 2) transfer these files to a Mac-formatted disk, which then goes 3)
into my SE.

Anyhow, I was just curious what format they were in, since I have a ton of
files that I can't get anything to read.

Thanks for your help (and cool page, BTW),

Nathan Marler

I use UnStuffit Deluxe which runs decompression automatically twice, hex and
sit. I had similar trouble until I unpgraded UnStuffit Deluxe with an
upgrade file that added a lot more encoding protocols. Got the upgrade
application from AOL's Mac software forum. ALSO, be sure to enable the
download preferences to automatically decompress in your browser or ISP GUI
(e.g., AOL)

Regards, Ron

In a message dated 97-04-01 02:49:10 EST, you write:

From: Jag
Subject: Pluses and Zip Drives

I understand that the Plus is not generally able to boot from a Zip drive. I
was wondering, however, if it is possible to do just that. My idea would be
to remove the zip tools disks without installing any of its software and
installing a blank disk. Then to restart with that blank disk in, and format
with silverlining software. I understand it would kill the removable benefits
but would get me an inexpensive and reliable (new) external hard drive. It
would also travel well to another Mac in the future. If this won't work is
there another way? BTW, I run system 6.0.7, currently on a 50meg HD after the
80meg gave up the ghost (shake to start).

Thanx - NeonGooch

You can get 80-100 meg drives for about $40-60 these days.Most (all?)
Pluses will not boot off a ZIp. I think because the ROMs don't allow it.
JAG
http://www.eden.com/~arena/arena.html

I did just this to recover and upgrade an older SE with a 20MB hardrive &
2.5MB 120nsec RAM. The procedure was convoluted since I wanted to use System
7.5.3 with SilverLining, Norton DiskDoctor, and SCSI Evaluator to recover the
20 MB files, install the 85 MB drive, test it, time it and install the
fastest drivers, capture the VIF files, partition it, extensively re-test the
platter at the bit level, and MOST importantly set the disk boot wait_time to
extend past the memory test time when powering up. It had unreliable booting
until the disk wait_time was set to 12 seconds. These applications run best
on System 7.5, but the SE owner needs to run the older 6.0.x (my ZIP Guest
requested 6.0.8 or higher, some of his purchased applications can't run under
Sys 7.x and 6.0.8 is the newest non-System 7.x version that can be easliy
obtained.) So I built a Sys 7.1 system on the ZIP on a Mac IIci and
downloaded the Sys 6.0.8 install files from Apple onto the ZIP added the
rescued 20MB disk contents. The ZIP booted from the SE to Sys 7.1 whereupon
I re-tested the 85 MB drive a bit more and then installed 6.0.8 and ZIP
guest; then installed all the non-system/finder files from the rescued 20 MB
folder. Lastly, I made two sets of 800K emergency 6.0.8 disk tools disk with
Zip guest on it so I could recover/repair in the event of future mishaps.
Worked just fine, in fact, the ZIP ran faster than the old 20 MB Shugart
drive (64 msec seek time... )

Now with 4MB 80 nsec RAM, 85 MB 12msec disk, (all from my Mac II dustbin) and
the video picture size expanded on the screen, it runs quite nicely. My
friend says it's like a "new Mac" and has come back to using Macs.

Regards, Ron

In a message dated 97-04-01 02:49:10 EST, you write:

Subject: Mac Modem Speeds

Older Macs CAN *USE* modems up to 33.6k (and possibly the new 56k modems; I
see no reason why not).

What they cannot do is process the incoming data at a rate comparable to the
modem's rate.

This is a limitation of the speed of the rest of the hardware, and NOT of the
serial ports themselves. Older Mac serial ports can run at 57600 bps or
greater (depending on how they are clocked).

I have a Zoom V.32bis modem on a Mac IIci. I have noted a wide variation of
download speeds based on the Internet Service Provider and Browser that is
much larger than the gain from a faster modem. AOL is usually the fastest
for North American based Web and FTP sites, Concentric.net is much slower but
easier to get a response and better internationally. My tests were
downloading the same file using these two different providers. Why? Is
there something one can do to speed it up?

Regards, Ron Carlson

On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Classic Posts wrote:

I was wondering what you use to prepare your Mac Shareware files for
distributing them over the Internet. I downloaded almost every file you had
(they look like fun), but neither StuffIt Expander nor BinHex 5.0 had any
luck in expanding them. I have never had any success with straight-up .SIT
files on the Internet, and the only files I can use are Bin-Hexed (.HQX).
Do you Bin-Hex them at all? Do you have any suggestions as far as what I
can do to make them work?

For decoding files taken from the web, newsgroups, etc.. I keep the
following apps on my hard drive and one of them is bound to decode
whatever I need to:

BinHex (makes & extracts .hqx files)
Shrinkwrap (makes & mounts disk images)
Stuffit Expander (automatically decodes files)
ZipIt (zips stuff for use on a PC)
UUencode (never needed this one, decodes uu encoded files I think)

I just bought 30 pin simms for my se/30, they are 4 megs each @ 60 ns. I
currently have 8 - 1 meg simms in my se/30, how do i install the new ones and
can i still use the remaining four simms?

I upgraded the ram from 5 to 8 megs on my old SE/30. You just need to
install simms in groups of 4. There just held in by small clips in the
sockets. Since you can only have 8 simms total in the SE/30 you won't be
able to use the 4 1 meg's that you'll have to remove. Save them in case
you get another machine that can use them.

T.J. Patterson
http://www.primenet.com/~monoply/credit.html

In response to:

I have found out the hard way that a Zip disk is no substitute for a HD.
The Zip is like a glorified floppy...however, there is no way to rebuild
the desktop like you can with a floppy. I ruined a whole bunch of files by using a
Zip disk as a HD...destroyed the resource fork on some of them.

I'm curious to know why this is so (about not being able to rebuild the
desktop, that is....) It was my impression that you can rebuild the
desktop on any Mac media whatsoever. I certainly am able to do it on my
Syquest cartridges.

--bj

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 11:27:20 -0500
To: classic-post@hitznet.com
From: Jim Bradley
Subject: Syem 7.1.1 and 7.1.2morning.

good morning,

I recently acquired a Macintosh IIx and decided to set it up with System
7.1 and compatible applications. Predictably, the performance has been
pretty good. Unfortunately, my recollection of 7.1 and associated
applications is a little sketchy.

While I've located Update 3.0, I have run into a few applications that
require 7.1.1 or 7.1.2. I can't find much reference to either. I think
7.1.2 was the PowerMac version but can't recall 7.1.1 at all.

Can anyone remind me what the heck these two were or point me to
the updaters?

7.1.1 added PowerTalk, 7.1.2 was for PPC macs. This was where Drag n
Drop and Clipping extensions along with AppleScript started to appear.
Updaters should be at all of the usual sites, eg www.apple.com. Going to
7.5.3 has all of these built in.

PBJ

After 7-1/2 years, a Mac SE's screen has gone dead (it slowly collapsed
horizontally until all that remains is a thin vertical line). The disk drive
and OS survive, but the screen is unreadable.

It'll be replaced--I think--with a modern Mac (PowerPC, separate monitor).

Given that we can't *see* the contents of the old machine (it's a
stand-alone, no network)...what's the simplest/easiest way to transfer the HD
contents from the SE to the new machine?

Please respond to me and I'll respond to the list.

Thanks.

Charles Meyerson

On 4/1/97 12:55 AM, Classic Posts wrote:

2) A "game" called Jam Session in which,
amongst other things, you could make chickens and other musical instruments
(!) make noises with an animated picture of a band on the screen...

Jam Session was published by Broderbund, which is still active, tho not
the keenest Mac developer I've ever seen. You'll find them at:
<http://www.broderbund.com/>

It crashes my LC575 running System 7.5.5; I think it's supposed to run
from its own Finder and System on the program disk. Get Info doesn't
reveal the versions, but the dates are 1987.

All the best, Dave

Dave Bogart

Anyone out there have a schematic for an SE/30 motherboard? Or, is anyone out
there a super SE/30 god/goddess?

I need to know the specs for transistor Q2.

Any suggestions on where to obtain the component once I've determined what it
is will also be appreciated.

(Don't ask why I need to know. Just suffice it to say I am an oaf, and am not
deserving of this fine Mac.....)

Thanks,
Brian Scarborough

Subject: Re: Duodock won't boot
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 97 18:04:24 -0000
From: ehintz
To: "Classic Posts"

1) PB has powerbook setup control panel that shows that the machine can
operate as external harddisk (i can switch SCSI ID numbers). The PB itself
doesn't have a SCSI port, which is available on the Duodock, so I thought
that if I have PB docked and the special scsi cable (30pins-50female, which
makes pb 160 to fall into the scsi disk mode) attached to the dock the mac
would operate in an external scsi hd mode... but it doesn't: when i turn it
on with cable attached, it just boots normaly... so I moved to another
option;

2) The Duodock has Ethernet card, and I decided to connect macs via
ethernet. Here I faced anothe problem. When i disconnect an external
monitro from the Duodock, it powersup, but stops booting in the middle of
the startup process. It boots perfectly with monitor attached.
So i ended up with regular localtalk connection which is (a little bit)
slow :(

or you could fool it into believing that it has a monitor by using a DB
15 plug and strapping pins 7 and 10, (thinks VGA monitor) OR 10 and 11
together (thinks 13" RGB).

PBJ

I highly recommend the following book by Larry Pina: "Mac Classic & SE Repair
and Upgrade Secrets." This book also covers SE/30's, and tells you just how
very easy it is to adjust your video display. Pina is a Mac repair god.

It's available from PeachPit Press, (800) 283-9444

Another book that I have not reviewed is: "The Dead Mac Scrolls." It
apparently goes into common problems with many other Macs.

Brian Scarborough

Kitt Thompson wrote:

Subject: SE/30 Video Problems

I am having some problems with my SE/30's display. It is ever-so-slightly
out of focus around the edges of the screen. The central region of the crt
seems in focus. I have tried adjusting the focus with the control located
on the analog board but it does not seem to affect anything. Has anyone
any idea of what might be wrong?

Sincerely,
Charles Thompson

On 3/30/97 11:10 AM, Classic Posts wrote:

From: NeonGooch
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 03:42:18 -0500 (EST)
To: classic-post@hitznet.com
Subject: MacPlus vs Zip drive

I understand that the Plus is not generally able to boot from a Zip drive. I
was wondering, however, if it is possible to do just that. My idea would be
to remove the zip tools disks without installing any of its software and
installing a blank disk. Then to restart with that blank disk in, and format
with silverlining software. I understand it would kill the removable benefits
but would get me an inexpensive and reliable (new) external hard drive. It
would also travel well to another Mac in the future. If this won't work is
there another way? BTW, I run system 6.0.7, currently on a 50meg HD after the
80meg gave up the ghost (shake to start).

Thanx - NeonGooch

The problem with booting off of a zip drive on a Mac plus is simply the
way the zip disks are formatted. On Mac Plus's, something is different;
if I remember correctly, the disk's interleave (the distance on the
physical disk between the logical consecutive blocks) is smaller on a
plus, than it is on other computers. So, if you re-format zip disks with
a third party formatter (that allows you to change options like this...
and allows you to format removable disk drivers), you will find that you
in fact can use a zip disk to start up a Plus. I know it works, because
I've run system 7.1 through 7.5.5 on a Mac Plus via zip.

See the Classic Macs archives (last December) for more info on the quirks
of Mac Plus compatible disk drivers.

Here's a little question for you all,

I just recently upgraded my Performa 6200CD to System 7.6. I also
just purchased some PhoneNet connectors and cable. Now - only after I
upgraded to 7.6 did I find out that Classic Networking is no longer
included and if you try to install the older network software, it won't
work. I've got my Plus and Classic II talking to each other just fine (the
Plus is on 7.0.1 and the Classic II on 7.5), but I really want to get the
Performa on the network since it is running my printer. Is there any way
to get a 7.6 machine on an Appletalk network without screwing up Open
Transport (other than begging Apple to add that functionality to the next
release)?

Thanks,
Adam